Q & A: Robert Baer

The CIA vet, author, and inspiration for Syriana talks about war zone nightclubs, torture, and what to do about Iran.

by Paul Bibeau

mj: How can we win the war on terror?

rb: We've got to get our minds around terrorism as a political problem. We kill Bin Laden today - so what? He'll just become a martyr. We're going on seven years in Afghanistan, and the Taliban are still closing down schools in Kandahar. It's a joke. And Iraq is a corpse that Petraeus keeps putting lipstick on to make it look like it's still alive. All the Iraqis are doing is cooperating to get American arms. Petraeus says it's thanks to Iran that they're keeping the peace. That's an extraordinary statement: Our main Middle Eastern enemy is keeping the peace for us? We're fucked. What to do? Come home. Just come home. Impose visas, make sure you know who's coming into your country, lock the cockpit doors, and be nice to Muslims here. The worst thing to do is to continually shed Muslim blood.

mj: Can we ever come to an understanding with the Iranians?

rb: Their interests are very clear-cut. They are not like the Takfiris who want to chop our heads off. The most popular TV program in Iran is about an Iranian diplomat who saves Jews during WWII. If we were Machiavellian, we'd quickly pull out of Iraq and draw the Iranians into a nasty civil war. Make them be the ones shooting people. Right now they look like the good guys, talking about the American imperialists. But if they had to impose order, they'd sing a different tune. Give Iran a taste of empire in Iraq and Afghanistan, and send them a Christmas card every year asking, "How are things going?" But if we stay, spend a couple trillion dollars every five years...that's your retirement. That's rebuilding our bridges. Is it really worth it?

mj: You were in Tehran recently. How was it?

rb: It's a big party town. Opium is cheaper there than anywhere. The Iranians are fun, smart people, ironic and forthcoming. Except when it comes to instruments of the police state. They don't really joke about that.

mj: In your travels, what city is your favorite?

rb: Beirut is fun. In Lebanon you can ski in the morning and spend the afternoon at the beach. You go to dinner at 11 o'clock at night, a piano bar after that, and the nightclubs don't really open until two in the morning. The only necrophiliac nightclubs I've ever seen in the world are in Damascus and Beirut. The one in Damascus has a show where this guy lies on a table and pretends to be dead, and this girl gets on top of him and "revives him," so to speak.

mj: Any advice for Americans traveling to high-risk areas overseas?

rb: Don't wear a flak vest - we call those "shoot me first" vests. Dress down. In places like Afghanistan you want to look like a Hare Krishna, like the least important person on the street. They won't waste a good suicide bomber on somebody trekking.

mj: What should a spy not leave home without?

rb: A cube of butter. Eat it before you drink with a Russian. It coats the stomach and keeps you from slipping under the table.

mj: Do you think torture works?

rb: No. I've seen evidence obtained through torture throughout my entire career at the CIA. The Arabs torture. And the ones who tortured the most had the worst intelligence. The people who use professional police techniques do best.

mj: Did you really try to buy your own town?

rb: Yes, Silver Lake, Colorado. We had a bid on it, but we had to do a site assessment for the EPA. Since it snows eight months of the year, it would have involved renting five helicopters. We were going to reincorporate. And then declare our independence. Invite the State Department to open an embassy.

mj: You wanted to rule your own country?

rb: Yeah. Was that a bad idea?