Lieutenant Colonel Eric Rotzoll is the man in charge. He is 5-foot-2 and Buddha-like in demeanor and shape. A former analyst for the CIA, his special skill is that he is fluent in Chinese. “I would have been a civil affairs officer flipping PowerPoint charts in Baghdad’s green zone,” he admits. “So I chose this.”
So that’s a Laotian DNA expert, a Chinese speaker, an ex–army grunt, and an auto mechanic.
The other thing I quickly size up is that Rotzoll’s team doesn’t have a specific mission or even any vehicles, so they are left to tag along on other missions out of Bagram. The team works for Colonel Spellman, the brigade commander, who, as Rotzoll puts it, “owns” the nearby northern provinces of Kapisa, Panjshir, Parwan, and Bamiyan. “He gives us an overarching idea for 180 days,” Rotzoll says. The best he can sum up their job is this: “to understand what is happening on the ground and advise the brigade as to the best path.” Rotzoll’s team is relatively new but he credits more established HTTs with reducing “kinetic” operations in this war by 40 to 60 percent. “Kinetic” is mil-speak for violence, which in Afghanistan typically begets more violence.
What kinds of things do the Afghans want the most? “Its pretty much always the same thing here,” says Rotzoll. “Security, water, schools, and roads.”
The civilian scientist seems as chatty as a Mafia don at a federal hearing, so I focus on the uniformed side of the team. From what I’ve gathered so far, when it comes to getting out in the field and talking to locals, the research manager who seems to do much of the heavy lifting is Lieutenant Jeremy Jones. From Indiana. And therefore “Indiana Jones.” He has sandy brown hair, with an eager face and pink cheeks, and, like Rotzoll, is very short: 5-foot-4 in this case. He will turn 26 in two weeks. The son of missionaries, Jones went to a lower-tier liberal arts college and got a bachelor’s in history. His last civilian employment was selling weight-loss products and waiting tables at a Cheesecake Factory in Indianapolis. “I was an engineer in the reserve army, and I couldn’t get a job,” he says. “So here I am.” As an army lieutenant Jones makes about $30,000 before danger pay, while a top-tier scientist can make $250,000 a year in the program. Even Gulam, his interpreter, makes four times what Jones does.
But Jones does have cool toys. During our initial chat he is constantly pulling his Beretta pistol out of his belt, playing with it, putting it on the desk, then back in his pants. He has a custom-made cowboy holster and a tricked-out assault rifle. “No one who is cool carries an M16,” he says. “The army owns this” — he points to the standard base — “but it doesn’t own this” — he points to the multiple accessories, such as an optical sight and the collapsing light stock, that convert his M16 into an M4. “It gives me more credibility.”
Jones explains his scientific approach to doing his human terrain thing on Afghans: “I try to take my helmet off. I don’t wear sunglasses. The eyes convey emotions. Give me an hour with someone and I can get anything out of them.”
The enterprising Jones comes up with a trip for us to a forward operating base about two hours northeast. FOB Morales-Frazier covers the bottom part of a valley that provides a smuggling corridor into Pakistan. Depending on where you go, it’s either a calm Tajik area or a hostile Pashtun one.
As we load up the MRAPs (mine-resistant ambush-protected vehicles — better-fortified replacements for Humvees, designed to survive IEDs), a large blond soldier from the Pennsylvania National Guard whom we’ll call “Krieger” is enjoying a pre-trip cigarette and wants to know whom our tiny lieutenant works for. “Human terrain,” Jones answers with panache. Krieger leans back and cocks a puzzled eyebrow. “You aren’t one of those HT assholes who wants to talk to the locals while I sit in my MRAP for 10 hours?”
Krieger is on a roll. “Hey, I talk to the Afghans. The last time I talked to an Afghan?” — Krieger launches into a violent pantomime of beating someone up, throwing him down on the ground, and zip-tying them — “was like that.”
Pretend–dusting himself off, he goes for the punch line. “Hey!” He whips around. “I told you to stay the fuck down!!!” And here he mimics crushing the invisible Afghan’s skull with his boots and then cutting his throat with his knife.
“Fuck that shit.” Krieger chuckles, folding his knife and shaking his head.
This is my first sense that the farther Jones gets from Bagram, and the deeper into hostile territory, the less touchy-feely this war is going to get. We put on flak jackets and helmets and climb into a convoy of a half-dozen 20-ton, 12-foot-high, tan-colored MRAPs. The heavy rear hatch thunks shut with an added hydraulic hiss, and once inside the belly of our mastodon-size steel steed we are instructed to put on noise-reduction headsets. Then air-conditioning from 12 vents blasts us into an arctic stupor. Our only connection to the outside world is through four-inch-thick glass portholes, which add a green tinge.
Morales-Frazier, the base we’re headed to, was originally named after its Afghan location of Nijrab but now, in the curious American cultural overlay, takes its name from two U.S. soldiers killed in action. It houses a State Department–run provincial reconstruction team tasked with supervising regional development projects, a 12-man marine team training the local Afghan army, a 400-man French paratrooper unit, and a revolving door of various military and intel units. It’s a mishmash of nations, groups, goals, and activities — the perfect petri dish for culture clash and confusion. It’s also a dangerous place. A week earlier a French patrol was ambushed nearby and lost 10 men. And a few days before that three marines were killed in an explosion.
The armored vehicles lumber and sway up switchbacks and through narrow village streets. The top gunners on the MRAPs give alternating fists, waves, or verbal threats to scatter the locals — mostly waving children and indifferent donkey herders. The contrast between our futuristic ride and the mud-village Tatooine-type poverty makes us look like the ultimate Imperial Stormtrooper, made-in-America, million-dollar-a-copy, fuck-you occupation parade.
After a long, hermetic ride we finally snake around blast barriers and through foot-deep waves of powder to enter the sprawling cocoon of FOB Morales-Frazier. Other than a fine coating of dust from the open gunner hatch above, we have managed to avoid seeing, smelling, or touching a single bit of Afghanistan.
—-
Jones is eager to find some human terrain to map, so he’s psyched to learn that there is a mission forming out of Morales-Frazier. But first he has to check in with the provincial reconstruction team commander. The PRT commander is an air force lieutenant colonel who wears a tan T-shirt with “FUBAR” (as in “fucked up beyond all recognition”) printed in large black capital letters across the front. FUBAR is playing cards with his team in what looks like a boys club, complete with a crude plywood door that carries a sign: “Knock before entering.”
Without looking up he says to Jones in his nasal midwestern twang, “We’ve had some pushback on the human terrain teams from the Afghan nationals. I gotta respect that. So the PRT cannot be associated with the human terrain teams.”
Jones asks FUBAR if he knows what HTT is. “Yes, I do,” the commander says brusquely as he slaps down his hand of cards, still without looking up.
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January 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Sad. I’ve been to Afghanistan twice. I think I will write an article on how poorly journalists cover the conflict. I suppose that they suffer from the same problem as the military. Go there for two weeks and think they understand it. This piece was a classic. I wonder what the title of my expose will be: Indian Jones and…not, wait, that one is taken. Any suggestions?
[Reply]
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Well, I read the whole thing and now I feel that we’re losing Afghanistan same way we’ve lost Iraq… Wait, Iraq is not lost and neither is A’stan. Robert Young Pelton’s piece is another example of biased writing I have to endure from NYT, LAT, and other “mainstream” media. Oh and I LOOOVED his comparison of American troops to Russians. This sentence “The resurgent Taliban is thrilled to see the Americans make many of the same mistakes the Russians did here: worn-out troops isolated in hardened forts defending a weakened central government promoting a foreign agenda.” is just glorious in its ridiculousness. I’m simply at loss of words here…. WOW. Thanks for the “well-written” post, Bobbie! I know you secretly wanted to uncover the next “Abu-Ghraib” scandal, but sorry – no Pulitzer for you.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
I sense anger in this one… Henry, the article is an accurate snapshot of my time with the HTT I was embedded with. I don’t do embeds but did one as a courtesy to head of the program and kept in touch with him to overcome dozens of obstacles to getting with them. Since then the head scientist has quit. FUBAR was the term used.
There are many teams such as Khost, and even in Iraq that have much more experience under their belts. I specifically asked to be with the teams that have suffered casualties in both countries but was given the Bagram crew to hang with. The war is just beginning in Afghanistan and I am sure my last 15 years there will be as interesting as the next 15 years. We were booted out of Iraq, we are just getting going in Afghanistan.
Personally I don’t find it a negative or positive piece. What I wrote is what happened.
Peace… out..
RYP
[Reply]
John Stanton Reply:
January 24th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Greetings RYP, you mentioned that the”head scientist has quit…” Is that the lead on the HTT team you traveled with or the senior social scientist of the HTS program Dr. Montgomery McFate-Sapone?
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
No the lead scientist for Afghanistan based in Bagram.
[Reply]
John Stanton Reply:
January 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Thanks!
Claude Reply:
January 24th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
On balance, I find that post entries beginning with “I sense anger in this one…” are scarcely worth reading, let alone replying to. Having read this, I found my initial assessment correct. But I have come this far, so….
Frankly, I read this article with much the same feeling as Henry. It wasn’t very flattering, and, in fact, seemed needlessly to make fun of several of those involved. RYP, I don’t mean to sound hurtful, but you seem to expend more time trying to be clever than accurate. For example, there is only one organization called HTT. The other is HCT — Human-Intelligence Collection Teams — they are intelligence collectors. That an Air Force officer didn’t know the difference is one thing, but you spoke with members of both teams, so you should have picked up on that. Oh, by the way, I’ve been to Bagram any number of times. I am as disgusted as anyone to see an army hunker down in a war zone, but to describe it as a strip mall in the middle of the desert is silly. The facilities are small by comparison to something you would find on a military base anywhere else.
Sorry to say this (honestly), but the article wasn’t very accurate and the tone was a bit smug and insulting. A talented writer might be excused the latter, but you simply are not that good. No one is excused the former. Go spend some real time in AFG and try again.
v/r
Claude
[Reply]
WTF RYP Reply:
February 15th, 2009 at 11:41 am
If you have spoken with the so-called head social scientist at Bagram, give us his first name. I met him at several meetings and often had coffee with him afterwards.
I know for a fact that he did not quit out of disgust. I doubt you ever spoke to him after you left Afghanistan. Here’s a hint on the name oh mighty fabricator…initials are M.S. and his name is a Slavic one.
BTW RYP, FUBAR is not a term I have ever heard M.S. use to describe anything. This is another example of you putting words in people’s mouths such as when you have soldiers in your article referring to you as a “journo.” I’ve never heard any soldier use that term. All troops and Public Affairs Officers say either reporter or journalist. I would be like a journo calling a soldier an eleven bang-bang. Any idea what that means RYP?
I suppose your hits on HTT do wonders for your competing business venture in Kabul. Hint to Men’s Journal Editor and Publisher: if you want to save yourselves some embarrassment, follow the money.
[Reply]
Mike Reply:
September 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Don’t find it as negative or positive? HAHAHAHA. Please, don’t feed us your bullshit pal. Look where we are a year later. It’s people like you that bring about the scum in media. Just cause you kids come play in the sandbox for a day doesn’t make you an expert, you sway left to get attention and it just pisses off all of us out here doing the real work. Come play for a year next time and maybe you will earn some real credibility since I’m doubtful you will write such bias crap.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
“v/r”?
) Writing is just one of my pastimes.
What would you consider real time in Afghanistan? And how would change what I saw and experienced? Does a “good writer” invent something to suit your preconceptions? I could refer you to the head scientist at Bagram for a more granular discussion on the HTT teams…but he quit in disgust a month ago.
Sorry… too many questions, I sound like an Iraqi.
Get yer google on Claude.
best
RYP
[Reply]
Claude Reply:
January 25th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Real time? Well, I don’t know, but certainly more than ten days. As for suiting my “preconceptions.” I’ve spent more than two years of my life in Afghanistan. *Clearly* there is a lot wrong with the U.S. involvement there, but I don’t need “preconceptions” to point them out. I have experience. As for a granular (whatever that means) discussion, I never suggested that I was seeking a mentor. I was simply pointing out that I have spent a great deal of time in that country, so I know for a fact that your article didn’t reflect any insight at all. (Or facts, for that matter: the head phones in an MRAP are not for noise reduction; they are to communicate. What exactly is a “hot-rodded Black Hawk”?) The fact that you did NOT pick up on something as simple as the difference between HCT and HTT, even after having spoken to members of each team, suggests to me that you really weren’t paying any attention or, for that matter, asking any questions. If your intention was, as you say, to depict your experience there, what the hell do conquistadores have to do with anything? How, exactly, do you equate U.S. forces to a group of genocidal pirates? And “a large black sergeant”? Couldn’t you be bothered to get his name? Or did you just need another characature?
I am prepared to agree with you that the U.S. effort in AFG has it’s problems (oh, so many problems), but a snarky little article that was based on one trip down range with a young man that you did little more than make fun of throughout your writing is not going to show that. In sum, your article sucked. And if I was your editor, I would have sent you back with a suggestion that badly worded, sophomoric wit does not take the place of digging for facts and actually observing what is going on around you.
I’m ready for another snarky, of-the-cuff reply.
Claude
PS “I sound like an Iraqi”???
[Reply]
WTF RYP Reply:
February 15th, 2009 at 4:06 am
Ah yes, RYP is so correct that a good writer doesn’t invent. But RYP, you invent. Must my opinion of you change?? The Horror. The Horror.
There are no helicopters in Afghanistan flying around with skulls on them. There are no flat black hot rodded Blackhawks ferrying generals about. What is a hot rodded Special Ops Blackhawk in any case Robert? Did it have big scary guns, a sixteen-inch naval canon or a Titan missile slung beneath the hull? All as plausible as the skull you didn’t see. How was this fearsome and culturally inappropriate machine of war hot rodded? Please tell me!!
There are no bombed out Humvess at any FOB in Kapisa. Since June, two Humvess have been damaged by IEDs in that province. One was completely destroyed and shipped to Bagram on a flatbed truck before you got here. The other was slightly damaged and was back in service weeks before your adventure in absurdist “journalism”.
There are many other cooked bits of “Apocalypse Now” atmospherics such a the piles of shell casing below the observation tower at FOB Kutschbach. They ain’t there. Never have been. There are no piles of shell casing because that gun has never been fired from that tower. I’ve been there so many times praying for a Taliban kamikaze blitz on the FOB so I could hear that gun speak and watch the hot brass rain upon the roof tops. Alas, the Taliban just continue to fire the occasional 107mm rocket. They are poor sports. Nice try though RYP.
Oh, and how do you observe so much from the interior of an MRAP? You can barely see anything sitting sideways in those things looking through small little tiny windows with spectacled fading middle-aged eyes. You certainly can’t see what the gunner in your vehicle is doing with his arms and hands. All anyone inside can see of the gunner are his legs and feet. Maybe RYP was up there with the gunner leading the “fuck you” parade. I can see it now, “I am Robert Young Pelton, cooker of stories, Dilettante of Dangerism ….fuck you little hand waving children of Afghanistan!! Fear me and my mustache!!!”
Despite whatever minor touches our gallant RYP had to fabricate to sell this story we must commend him. I admire you RYP and I dearly hope that this story has not damaged your position as an information operations contractor with US Forces Afghanistan. Let’s hope that those generals who pay for your services in Kabul read this story and think, “Wow, we really need this Danger Guy’s help because our other feeble efforts to understand this country are so screwed up!” Let’s hope they don’t get upset, but then biting the hand that feeds in the name of TRUTH is an honorable position for any journo. That’s how Woodward and Bernstein lost their jobs in the Nixon White House. Oh no, wait they had no conflict of interest. Forget that. Hey, I hear Geraldo found some real cool Danger stuff in a vault in Chicago you could write about. You two were made for each other.
Peace Out Bobby P!!
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
February 17th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Why do all these internet warriors not have names and emails? Sheesh..here we go again.
I don’t know that your incorrect and clumsily fabricated comments should go unnoted.
My “business” in Afghanistan is “AfPax” like IraqSlogger.com in Iraq and is unrelated to the Human Terrain program. We run an open source news service from Iraq and have a network in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The fact that we are wired into a number of networks and have massive ground level connections might be a boon to the HTT program, but could and would never compete. You could say that my “World’s Most Dangerous Places’ book competes with the CIA but you would sound just as silly.
Yes people come to me for advice in many different ways and yes they enjoy my candid appraisal. They are also free to go anywhere else they like and judge the value of their responses.
On a few other things. I stand by my interpretation of the resignation of the anthro and its always in people’s interest to be candid to others but smiling to their employers. He has impeccable credentials, is exactly the kind of person they should be hiring…and he no longer works there. Go figure.
The shell casings are there exactly where I said they are since they are the foreground in the photos I took. I like to document what I do and have people with me who can vouch for what happened as well. Must’ve taken you a while to clean them off the sandbags.:))
My view from the MRAP was just fine, and whether I was up with the gunner on top or taking pics through the tinted windows I described and photographed what I wrote about. Once again you obsess on my viewpoint not the facts.
The bits of the humvee are to left as you enter the base from the helo pad.
Yes the Blackhawks have skulls on them. Grim Reaper complete with sickle to be exact.
What’s strange to me is that your “insider” responses do not provide an alternative or positive view of the HTT program but rather a critique of my ability to accurately depict reality or some hidden agenda.
Dissing a 120M+ program does not benefit me or anyone else..its my tax money hard at work. Hopefully my experience might provide insight into the gap between goal and execution and trigger a response or positive modification. As I have said before I think the idea of putting both civilians and the military outside the wire and in the field is an excellent idea, but in my specific experience the team I was exposed to seemed to contain multiple inherent friction points. That is not a reflection on them but rather a structure that prevents them from doing their jobs properly.
I get that you are angry, but at least be angry about things that are real…like the HTT needing some better defined support and oversight.
More importantly you seem to have completely missed the point of the article (i hope you are not an analyst!))) and choose to fixate on… my mustache. That’s some weird situational awareness/target fixation dude…
))
Peace out
RYP
[Reply]
An HTS Analyst Reply:
February 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Perhaps, Mr. Pelton, since you insist those bullet casings are in your photos, and all these people who have been there say the very idea is ridiculous, you could post those photos and settle this once and for all?
Also, since I’ve worked with GEN Milley, I can quite definitively say you are lying about the skulls. They don’t happen, and people are under orders not to adorn their vehicles with anything. You might also want to explain what a “hot-rodded SF Blackhawk” is, since no one in Army aviation I’ve spoken to about it can tell me. They kind of laugh.
One last thing. The opening for the roof gunner on MRAPs and Humvees is tight. How did you and your camera fit up there with the gunner, without ruining his ability to provide cover for the convoy? Maybe Mr. Florio took a picture of that, since I’d be curious how that’s even physically possible.
It is a combination of two things that is driving skepticism of your article, Mr. Pelton. Verifiable facts don’t match up with experience, and your tone is belitting and frankly condescending toward those who ask questions. It lends the impression you have something to hide.
As for the HTT itself, I’m kind of surprised you declare it broken without asking anyone in the Brigade they support if they provide useful or operationally relevant data. That you simply write about their dysfunction (yes, HTS has major issues right now), without even mentioning their close, very positive relationship with both their brigade and the French at M-F, is perhaps telling. I won’t speak for them, but I would urge you to contact the unit they are attached to and see if they really do live up to even part of their potential.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 11:08 am
If you are an HTS analysts, Publish your name and email in your reply and i will send you the pictures. I have done so to another blogger who after reviewing them published his apology.
For the record I fit just fine on the top of an MRAP. Also if my tone is bothersome I find much of the articles important elements are routinely ignored while critics seem to obsess on the same, easily provable details, like skulls on helicopters, casings on a roof and whether I can see out of an MRAP.
I would have loved to talk to the folks at the Brigade (and have visited more teams in other countries) but as you know being embedded does not allow free movement or access. I agreed to the embed to respect Steve Fondacaro’s wishes. I don’t do embeds and this was my first. I would hope that my experience would be judged for what it was: The Human Terrain programs attempts to show me how its program worked.
I am sure that had my experience been at one of the other locations (I requested Sadr City and Khost regions) the story would have been much different.
I will be out of the country for a while but if you work for Steve you know exactly where to find me.
best
RYP
January 24th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
HTS program has so many problems. One of the worst, I think, is the view held by many that the HTS program needs time and space to prove its worth. Meanwhile, three deaths into the gig and who knows how many troops wounded, distracted from other duties trying to take care of HTT members. Early on in the HTS program–which actually was in JIEDDO first–an active USA LTG said, “Let’s kick it (HTS) out there and see what happens.” Been pretty rough since. Interesting to note that JIEDDO got hammered long ago by GAO for management/accountability matters. One time head of JIEDDO was Steve Fondacaro.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Modern warfare requires new and imaginative ways of do things. A successful campaign against the Taliban in Afghanistan or any other insurgency group should be based using a mix of offensive, defensive, and stability operations conducted along multiple lines of operations. The Human Terrain Teams (HTT) provides a way to reduce the employment of lethal fires in combat and civil security operations by the identification and separation of the insurgency from populace. The integration of a group of civilians or subject matter experts in cultural, language and any other social factor should be supported by our military leaders because is a new tool to do things against our adversaries. I disagree from the author’s point of view of HTT is an absurdist tale of modern warfare. Perhaps the results of the new program are not according to the expectations, but before close the door to this innovation, method of performance and effectiveness will be revised. The idea of having a team of experts in: anthropology, social sciences, geography, ethnography, political science and linguist embedded in the BCT will provide to the CDR an amazing resource of knowledge about cultural stuff on his area of operation. Civilians and soldiers should learn how to work together at any level, modern warfare requires new TTPs and HTT is one of them, let time to mature and see what going on.
[Reply]
John Stanton Reply:
January 24th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Yikes! Jose. I could have pulled your paragraph right off the HTS website. I do not agree at all with your view mainly because I’ve written 10 pieces on the HTS (see Pravda Cryptome, Net in general). When I say I, it’s really not me but the 30 plus sources that have sent along their stories. And they still keep coming in which is why another piece is on the way. My own view is that if you want to do warfighting on this level you’ve got to have the attitude that was present in Phoenix or the Sealous Scouts. Forget feel-good rationales and and focus on the mission. The USA is good at that–just ask the Native Americans and the Filipino’s. I do not feel emotional one way or the other on the matter. But if the orders so instruct, then carry them out.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
seems typical whenever an article comes out that puts the reporter at odds with those familiar with the subject, each just ends up insulting each other.
face it, by being a journalist, you are inherently a generalist. there is a need for those folks but like all generalists, when ever you are talking to the folks that do the business, perceptual gaps and outright gaffes occur. ask any doctor to comment on any newspaper medical article or a quarterback or coach to comment on a sportswriter analysis of the game, in general you will get the same response you got here.
for a fair look at your article, why don’t you ping one of the guys at smallwarsjournal.com who used the HTT as a topic not too long ago. these folks have fought and helped establish doctrine across the entire battlespace from the Phillipines to Afghanistan to somalia to Iraq.
they include folks like Dave Maxwell and Dave Dilegge (COIN advisior to Gen Petreaus).
that way you can get some feedback on your articles that you can look to followup on.
thanks for going out in the boonies though to get this story. may not agree with the tone of the story but it tooks stones to go out there
[Reply]
January 24th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
I’m not sure what I missed. The tone seems pretty neutral, with the exception of the writer stating that we might be making a mistake that has been repeated by other countries when dealing with Afg. I don’t think the quotes of the soldiers is insulting – I think it shows the marked difference in missions between the sociologist and the foot soldiers. I also think it illustrates the inherent problem with the situation: how do you gather intelligence and grab the hearts of the locals when you’ve watched your friends get killed or injured by perhaps these very same people?
The biggest issue this brings up to me is not whether the people who are doing their jobs are good at their jobs. The problem is one of organization and planning. When the choice is “cooperate or die” you will definitely get people to capitulate. This is not the same as winning them over. The question then becomes whether or not you will have their long-term cooperation.
Most alarmingly, it seems that there is a sense – from the top – of making up policy on the fly. The folks in the article are simply trying to do what they are assigned to do. The human intelligence part appears to be an afterthought. Unfortunately, it’s hard to buy a lot of genuine goodwill after the shooting has begun.
In response to the comments by Henry Jones – while Iraq and Afg may not have been lost, they sure as heck haven’t been won. Adding a bit of critical thought to complicated situation seems like an excellent idea. And we did repeat some of the exact same mistakes as the Soviets – that’s not badmouthing. That’s simply recognizing a fact and realizing that we need to learn from it in order to accomplish our goals.
The commenters should lay off the writer. He was there. He looked around. He reported. You can do the same if you wish. I’ll read your articles, too. Sometimes an outsider’s perspective is painful but it can also provide insight that the insiders lack.
[Reply]
January 24th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Congrats Men’s Journal! You guys have made it unduly hard to read this article by not providing either a “single page” or “printer friendly” option for the piece. Dummies. If you’re not going to step it up to 2009, at least step it up to 2003.
[Reply]
January 25th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Claude,
I have been traveling to Afghanistan since 1995 and I don’t know that anyone could truly say they have spent enough time there.
You ask questions. Th headphones are for noise reduction and communications among the crew. They isolate passengers from their surroundings as does the MRAP.
A hot rodded Black Hawk is the special operations version and this one was flat black with a grinning skull/death’s head. Once again an example of cultural and mission dissonance.
The confusion between Human Terrain Team and Humint Tactical Collection Team was the PRT commander’s confusion, not mine. They use the same acronym even though they have different functions. Ergo the discussion between Peter and Jones.
Names were not used for some of the soldiers since there is no need to expose them to internal scrutiny. There are repercussions for speaking openly or humorously with writers.
You seem to have missed the whole point of the article. That a young, hard working, poorly paid reserve officer spends much of time fighting the system while the high paid anthros who are supposed to be the backbone of the program do little.
You are entitled to your opinion but its far more productive to focus on the message not the messenger. I had hoped I would see a much different story play out but when you do an embed you are stuck with what they give you. That’s why I don’t do embeds but made an exception to accommodate the HTT program.
If you do a modicum of research you will quickly learn that the program is a good idea but has operational and staffing flaws.
RYP
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
January 26th, 2009 at 4:11 am
I may be confused myself, but “HTT” and “THT” are not the same acronym.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 26th, 2009 at 8:18 am
In the article the Humint Tactical Team calls themselves the HTT and the local afghans also called them that to the PRT commander. Its not a question of my interpretation but what the people I met called themselves.
best
RYP
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
January 27th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
I’m inclined to question your article and interpretation, or at least your comprehension on the ground, rather than assume that “Tactical HUMINT Teams” – THTs – also known as “HUMINT Collection Teams” – HCTs – (that’s the wording, get your google on or do some research on the military) would be confused about what their own teams are called. Using loaded language like “concocting acronyms” opens the door to people questioning the messenger and the interpretation, not just the message.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 28th, 2009 at 8:06 am
Dave,
Please read the article. I don’t care what acronym any group uses. It is the PRT commander who was confused. You can question why a an Air Force colonel has this confusion, not me.
EJ Reply:
February 14th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Interesting point here. RYP claims in his response to the Army to have intimate knowledge of intelligence issues and thus the difference between the tactical HUMINT collectors and the HTT. He says that the HUMINT guys introduced themselves as HTT. There is no such creature as HUMINT Tactical Teams (HTT’s). There are Human Terrain Teams (HTT). There are HUMINT Collection Teams (HCT). Say HTT and HCT quickly and you find the sound is almost identical. RYP, guru of Army intelligence doctrine and organizations, surely knows this and must have been a wee bit fatigued from chasing pirates when he referred to HUMINT Tactital Teams. In any case, copy right that term Robert. Given how often the Army changes acronymns they may want that one next. You could make a buck.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
February 17th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Thanks for the promotion EJ or whatever you are calling yourself this time.
There was a very funny lengthy discussion of potential acronym names between Paris Hilton, Peter and Jones. Once again keep your eye on the bouncing ball, its not that hard to follow.
I wrote down what people said, the PRT commander was confused (to Jone’s detriment) I have no reason to invent confusion etc etc, etc, etc.
C’mon focus on the HTT program and the events that occured…not your opininos of the writer that was embedded with them.
You can pull a number of articles about the HTT’s all completely unrelated to this article and draw some general conclusions. All of which should be part of any intelligent assessment or opinion of the program (if that is truly your goal)
In the meantime, please keep in mind that I offered to do another embed at another location to generate a wider perspective and perhaps different outcome..and nothing happened.
CJ Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
As a former THT leader, I’ll pile on that there is a BIG difference between HTT and THT.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 11:10 am
You are absolutely right…the point made in the article.
CJ Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Seriously RYP, you expect me to believe that a group of Soldiers don’t even know what kind of team they are on? Give it a rest. You have no credibility just based on the tone of your article. I think if I’m on a THT or an HTT or THTT or whatever you wanted to call it, I’d KNOW!!
January 26th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
RYP,
Actually the headphones are for communications, period. They have noise reduction hardware and software built into them because being inside an armored vehicle is actually a rather noisy experience. You of course do know this but that didn’t stop you from using this data to support your conclusions…did it? Related to this of course is that American politicians and the American public are casualty averse and the media spins casualty producing events world-wide into something that they aren’t on a regular basis to meet the requirements of a 24hour news cycle and of course for their own personal agendas. Remember the NY Times “all the news that’s fit to print” being duped into printing photos of the same “dead guy” in Lebanon over and over in different locations? You weren’t duped though, you went to Bagram with your own pre-conceived notions of what your story would be and then filled in the blanks once you got there.
A “grinning skull/death’s head” as an example of cultural dissonance? Could you PLEASE find something a little less significant to use to substantiate your agenda? My god man! You gather together a few breadcrumbs of your own choosing do lead us down your fallacious argument. Here’s a news flash, soldiers have been showing bravado in different ways since Christ was a Corporal! A deaths head isn’t pissing off the Afghans, trust me, I know…been there done that got the t-shirt! What does upset an Afghan is the flow of fighters from Waziristan into Afghanisatn but then that didn’t really fit into you templated story, did it?
Oh, and how about the “cultural dissonance” displayed by the Taliban when they throw acid in the face of an 11 year old girl on her way to school? How about the “cultural dissonance” of Pres. Karzai who condemns operations like the recent one in Laghman province but won’t seriously look into corruption in his own government? How about your own “cultural dissonance” when you knowingly take one grunt’s myopic and immature rants and use them to buttress your narcissistic agenda?
Have a nice day!
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 27th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Rene,
You seem to want to believe that armored men traveling in lumbering steel vehicles and skull adorned helos while living in walled fortresses somehow gets you closer to the population. Sorry, it doesn’t. Jones’attempts were the focus on this piece and there is nothing except my documenting his efforts to do his job.
More importantly the article is not about my opinions or some agenda I have. My agenda is to figure things out and see if what people say is what they actually do. You may have read my books and articles about my time with rebels, special forces, jihadis, mercenaries and contractors.
In this case I met with the founders of the concept, I went there, I wrote down what happened within the time offered to me and themagazine space allotted.
Folks would be more disturbed by the longer version but I think the problems are clear. Had I been in another location with another group of HTT folks and things had gone differently I would have written what would have happened there without any attempt to color or shade the outcome.
My narcissistic agenda could be much easier furthered doing other things but this was like my other work, a genuine attempt to explore and understand something I was intrigued by.
I appreciate your other comments, but i can’t speak to your points since they unrelated to the article.
best
RYP
[Reply]
January 27th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
RYP,
You have clearly stated the obvious, yes the rolling steel box isolates you from the who is outside, what you miss is the reasont eh rolling steel box is there — TB and HIG fighters flowing freely in from Waziristan. Yeah I know…you did not write the article on where the fighters are coming from, the problem is that you should have. Your articel adds little of value and draws false conclusions. The long pole in the tent in Afghnsitan is to stop the fighting, the answer lies in Pakistan and more specifcally Waziristan.
I would like you to try again and maybe go to Waziristan and dig into where the “lost boys” are getting their funding from. Here’s a hint, since the price of a barrel of oil tanked that should slow down RPG7 purchases at the weapons markets!
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Rene,
I can answer intelligent questions, and I can direct you to do a little more research on my background but I can’t convince you that article is about two weeks with a well intentioned group that resulted in a very interesting example of when promise falls far from performance.
Heks forces are based just outside of Kabul and Peshawar, the taliban are based in Afghanistan and the southern regions of Pakistan. When you say Waziristan are referring to Jalludin Haqqani’s forces. Haqqani is married to a Saudi woman and his base is in Miram Shah. You can read about my time in the tribal areas in my National Geographic Adventure piece a few years back “In the Land of Bin Laden”.
[Reply]
John Stanton Reply:
January 28th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Here is where HTS is going, has gone. Most of us watching this “good idea” program knew this had to be going on elsewhere and was meant for purposes far beyond Afghanistan/Iraq, Africa, etc. This is why there is so much support for it: use academia to widen the Intel net. From the US Gov perspective it is a great idea and, as far as I’m concerned, it falls under protect-defend the constitution, er, ah, the US way of life. Too bad the US Gov just can’t come out and say what it is doing, and academics, et al, just can’t stop wanting to play soldier. See below.
Zapotec Indigenous People in Mexico Demand Transparency from U.S. Scholar
By Saulo Araujo
January 22nd, 2009
The Union of Organizations of the Sierra Juarez of Oaxaca (UNOSJO) – a longtime partner of Grassroots International based in Mexico – denounced a recently conducted study in the Zapotec region by U.S. geography scholar Peter Herlihy. Prof. Herlihy failed to mention that he received funding from the Foreign Military Studies Office of the U.S. Armed Forces. The failure to obtain full, free and prior informed consent is a violation of the rights of indigenous communities as codified in the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples adopted by the United Nations in 2007. In addition, UNOSJO fears that this in-depth geographical mapping of indigenous communities may be used in some harmful manner by the military.
According to UNOSJO, University of Kansas geography professor Peter Herlihy approached local communities of the Sierra Juarez, Oaxaca, Mexico to collect information for his project and declined to fully disclose his purpose or his funding sources. In addition to this failure to fully inform indigenous communities of the nature of the study, Mr. Herlihy’s team took advantage of the good-faith of the Zapotec indigenous communities to undertake a study that appears to be of no benefit to the local people.
For 518 years, indigenous people in the Americas have been abused, lied to and exploited in the name of “progress,” including in the fields of education and research. It is regrettable that a U.S. scholar misled indigenous people in the Mesoamerican region in a way that undermines their sovereignty. Echoing the concerns of our partners and allies, Grassroots International hopes that these U.S. military-sponsored studies will be terminated immediately. Further, we request that the University of Kansas hold Prof. Herlihy accountable for his violation of ethics in research, including abusing of the rights of UNOSJO and the indigenous communities of the Sierra Juarez of Oaxaca, Mexico.
Read UNOSJO’s full statement below.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PRESS BULLETIN FROM UNION OF ORGANIZATIONS OF THE SIERRA JUÁREZ OF OAXACA (UNOSJO, S.C.) – Oaxaca, Mexico
TO ALL STATE, NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL MEDIA SOURCES:
We kindly request that you publish the present bulletin in your respective means of communication.
Towards the end of 2008, the results of the research project México Indígena (Indigenous Mexico) were handed over to two Zapotec communities in the Sierra Juárez in the form of maps. Research had been undertaken two years earlier by a team of geographers from University of Kansas. What initially seemed to be a beneficial project for the communities now leaves many of the participants feeling like victims of geopiracy.
In August 2006, the México Indígena research team arrived at the Union of Organizations of the Sierra Juárez of Oaxaca (UNOSJO, S.C.) to present research objectives and garner support to commence work in the Sierra Juárez region. At the time, the team included a Mexican biologist Gustavo Ramírez, an Ixtlán native well known in the area, who was responsible for initially approaching UNOSJO.
Project leader and geographer Peter Herlihy explained the project objectives to UNOSJO, S.C., initially stating that it was to document the impacts of PROCEDE [a Mexican Government program has had on indigenous communities. He failed to mention, however, that this research prototype was financed by the Foreign Military Studies Office (FMSO) of the United States Army and that reports on his work would be handed directly to this Office. Herlihy neglected to mention this despite being expressly asked to clarify the eventual use of the data obtained through research.
Herlihy mentioned that his team would collaborate with the following organizations: the American Geographical Society (AGS), Kansas University, Kansas State University, Carleton University, the Universidad Autónoma de San Luis Potosí and the Secretary of Environment and Natural Resources (SEMARNAT). He failed, however, to acknowledge the participation of Radiance Technologies, a company that specializes in arms development and military intelligence.
Although UNOSJO, S.C. participated in some of the México Indígena Project’s initial activities, the organization soon ceased participation due to unclear project intentions. The Santa Cruz Yagavila and Santa María Zoogochi communities also ended up feeling the same distrust and they too abandoned the Project. For these reasons, the México Indígena research team localized activities within the San Miguel Tiltepec and San Juan Yagila communities, both located in the Zapotec region known as El Rincón de la Sierra Juárez.
In November 2008, México Indígena members Peter Herlihy and John Kelly attended a meeting of the UCC, the Unión de Comunidades Cafetaleras “Unidad Progreso y Trabajo” (the Union of Coffee-Producing Communities “Unity, Progress and Work”), held in the community of Santa Cruz Yagavila. They announced the completion of the Yagila and Tiltepec community maps and offered their services to other organization-member communities. They went on to mention that research had been carried out with the collaboration of UNOSJO, S.C.’s own Aldo Gonzalez, a fact that was immediately refuted.
Following the aforementioned UCC meeting, UNOSJO, S.C. began looking into the México Indígena Project. Investigation revealed that México Indígena forms part of the Bowman Expeditions, a more extensive geographic research project backed and financed by the FMSO, among other institutions. The FMSO inputs information into a global database that forms an integral part of the Human Terrain System (HTS), a United States Army counterinsurgency strategy designed by FMSO and applied within indigenous communities, among others.
Since 2006 the Human Terrain System HTS has, since 2006, been employed with military purposes in both Afghanistan and Iraq and according to what we g=have been able to determine Bowman Expeditions are underway in Mexico, the Antilles, Colombia and Jordan.
In November 2008, the México Indígena Project completed the maps corresponding to Zapotec communities San Miguel Tiltepec and San Juan Yagila. Contrary to the often-mentioned promise of transparency, México Indígena created an English-only web page, a language that the participating communities do not understand. Before the communities received the work, said maps had already been published on the Internet. Furthermore, the communities were never informed that reports detailing the project would be handed over to the FMSO.
In addition to publishing the maps, the México Indígena team created a database into which pertinent information was entered: community member names and the associated geographic location of their plot(s) of land, formal and informal use of the land and other data that cannot be accessed via the Internet.
According to statements made by those heading the México Indígena research team, this type of map can be used in multiple ways. They did not specify, however, whether they would be employed for commercial, military or other purposes. Furthermore, as the maps are compatible with Google Earth, practically anyone can gain access to the information. Yet only community members can decipher information expressed in Zapotec (toponyms), unless, of course, one has the capacity to translate them, as in the case of FMSO linguistic specialists.
UNOSJO, S.C. is against this kind of project being carried out in the Sierra Juárez and distances itself completely from the work compiled by the México Indígena research team. We call upon indigenous peoples in this country and around the world not to be fooled by these types of research projects, which usurp traditional knowledge without prior consent. Although researchers may initially claim to be conducting the projects in “good faith”, said knowledge could be used against the indigenous peoples in the future.
We hereby demand that Peter Herlihy honor his promise of transparency and that the Mexican public be made aware all his sources of funding and the institutions that received information on findings obtained in the communities.
We further demand that, in light of these facts, the Mexican Government, firstly the Secretary of Environment and Natural Resources for having financed part of the research, as well as the Department of Internal Affairs, the Department of External Affairs, Deputies and Senators for possible violations of the Indigenous Peoples’ National Sovereignty and Autonomy, clarify its position on the matter.
Oaxaca de Juárez, Oax., 14 January 2009
UNION OF ORGANIZATIONS OF THE SIERRA JUÁREZ OF OAXACA (UNOSJO, S.C.)
[Reply]
January 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
I had intended to write a scathing rebuke of Mr Young’s article, however I realized that as a soldier I guarentee the write to free speech. So I will say simply. You are welcome! I presently serve in Afghanistan and neither I, nor my soldiers are sage wearing storm troopers. The average age of my soldiers is 20 years old. They are thousands of miles away from families and loved ones, and they are here willingly. I think a majority of the comments made by soldiers while were a bit insensitive, I have with no doubt in my mind were taken out of context. I think this article took away from those soldiers that are doing noble and honorable work.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
January 31st, 2009 at 10:33 am
D
Nothing is out of context, my last name is Pelton and just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean it’s not true or didn’t happened.Its not even free speech, since I am not espousing an opinion but documenting events.
If its free speech, I think you need to listen to Jones in the article. He is exactly as you describe. Working hard but fighting the enemy.. and the system. It is articles like this that make higher ups stop and think because its hard for a young Lt like Jones to get face time, let alone impact. Hopefully Jones will actually be helped not hindered in his efforts to do his job.
best
RYP
[Reply]
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:57 am
We request a full investigation of the unethical actions of the Univ. of Kansas scholars–Herlihy & Dobson–who have violated international standards of informed consent while conducting research in our territoty.
Junta Directiva–
[Reply]
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:13 pm
this is completly bias. i am currently here in afghanistan and it is nothing as put here. this article is perception. it is nothing to the such. the weapons going off in kuchbac was at a testfire range. when you roll out it is a safty thing to make sure you have functioning weapons. since i have been here i have not talked to an afghan that was not happy that we are here. in their words we as a country are screwed if and when america pulls out.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Jeff,
Glad to hear someone from the Cooch chime in. The day I was there they were goofing around with the turret gun on a Humvee, not just clearing guns. More importantly, if the Afghans are happy you are there… why do you need all those Hescos, special forces troops, heavy weaponry and mortars???
)
I hope I captured the somewhat fractured architecture and chaotic ambiance of the “Cooch” even if we disagree on how much love is dispensed in “terrain denial”
RYP
[Reply]
Falshrmjgr Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Wow. Can you say “Passive-aggressive”? You really should see a shrink. Between the delusions of grandeur, hubris, arrogance, and mockery, it’s a sure fire college tuition for the child of some lucky PhD.
I mean honestly? Does this bad retread of Vietnam era anti-war themes really constitute “journalism” by even the eroded standards of today?
I find your portrayals of the events and people in your story not only overt fictionalizations, but demeaning ones that serve no purpose other than your self-aggrandizement. I would accuse you of trying to advance your own anti-war sentiment, but we both know that isn’t true. Your only agenda is advancing your own myth, and fattening your wallet at the expense of the innocent.
Even if the “nightcap” event did occur, (which I don’t doubt) you placed the career of an officer who befriended you in jeopardy by reporting it. Further, you demonstrated loud and clear that your personal morality accepts no responsibility for your actions. Who brought the liquor in? Who signed an agreement to abide by the regulations of the US Military? You did.
You didn’t have the drama you were hoping for, so you created your own, and then painted the facts that didn’t suit the tone of your article with a paintbrush dipped in media imagery straight out of a B Movie.
The sad part is, everyone pays but you.
So kindly go take your pseudo-intellectual blather, along with your fiction, and shove it up your fourth point of contact. I’m sure in your war weary travels you’ve heard the expression before.
[Reply]
Briena Reply:
February 25th, 2009 at 9:43 am
WHO IN THE HELL CALLS FB KUTSCHBACH THE”COOCH”??? I know that none of us that are here do!! Im sorry but not all Afghans are good Afghans. Some of them are bad but portray the image of wanting us here so they can blow us up if they ever get close enough to us. That is why we need the Hescos and our other forces here!!!Plus not all of us on KB get to get off the base because our command will not allow us to. So we need guys and gals that can!!! Im here on KB in case you havent figured that out by now!!! And as for the terrain denial in case you have looked around KB, from any direction you can see into the base, but sometimes we cant see them!!! Once agian another reason why we need our heavy weaponry and mortars. I work with OUTSTANDING people here on KB and we do our damnedist to prevent anything from happening to this base. If you really want to find out how much we get mortared how about you stay out here for a month or two and find out how bad it really is out here!! We got a cot for ya!!!
Briena
[Reply]
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
As far as the article goes it was about as expected, that is, the same as other stories about the missed opportunities that occur whenever the arrogant empire stomps it’s boot and starts killing.
What I find more disturbing is the plethora of ad hominem attacks disguised as ‘average reader comment’ made by vested interests, either military ‘spin doctors’ or other amerikan contractors. These shots at the writer, whose crime appears to be telling us what he saw instead of what he was told he should see, never get to grips with what the’mission’ is meant to be anyhow, they just assume that humanity must accept if it’s amerikan and carries guns then its motives are always impeccable.
Why are all those foreign (ie non afghani) troops in Afghanistan? Lots of people have died, lots of kids in amerika and europe have become heroin addicts and the great nemesis Usama Bin Laden remains uncaptured, even as his dad parties with the amerikan prez’s dad.
Everyone knows the facts in that last sentence to be true, yet always this veil of wilful ignorance is dragged across events in the ‘ghan’ to obscure the reality for as long as it takes amerikan people who do not want to comprehend exactly why a group of saudis and egyptians decided to take revenge upon them, to ‘get over it’.
It won’t work of course. Whether or not amerika and the coalition of the killing can actually ‘win’ in afghanistan is irrelevant to the one over arching issue. That is the act of exacting punishment on the most helpless group of muslims available (apart from the Palestinians but another mob got first dibs on them as enemy) will ensure that many millions more people on this planet feel that they have a legitimate right to seek revenge upon amerika and the flabby, flaccid and woefully ignorant people who inhabit it.
[Reply]
Falshrmjgr Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Frankly, the ad hominem attacks are justified, considering the ad hominems in the article.
Woefully ignorant people? When did you wear a uniform? What is the source your knowledge? Oh wait, you read it on the Daily Kos, so you are privy to secret knowledge available only to “the informed.”\
So sorry, please enjoy your trip to fantasy land.
[Reply]
February 17th, 2009 at 4:42 am
RYP, you keep stating again and again that you were portraying facts. Fact: there are no helicopters in Afghanistan with skulls on them. None. Generals in particular won’t ride in helicopters with skulls on them, as they have directed the removal of art from the gunshields of vehicles.
RYP, I was there when FOB Kutschbach was being laid out. Now that was a touch of chaos. When it became operational as Firebase Pathfinder in the fall of ’07 it didn’t look chaotic. It doesn’t look chaotic today. You have been contended with about the shell casings by someone who goes there a lot in the present day. You spoke of seeing things from inside the moving MRAP that you couldn’t have seen. You have nicely sidestepped these errors in fact, also known as misrepresentations or commonly as lies, while continually repeating that you were simply reporting what you saw.
You did not in fact see many of these things. You admit to violating General Order #1 by taking a bottle of whiskey downrange, which is prohibited to everyone, not just the Soldiers. You knew and agreed to this before being allowed to embed. You have lied about other circumstances related to that “indiscretion” as well. You repeatedly make statements that have nothing to do with a young Lieutenant “trying to do his job” by making statements alluding to how the Lieutenant was fixated on the toys on his weapon or those who he ran into. It can be safely assumed that your interest was in making the LT appear amateurish.
Also, THT’s are not shooters who drag anyone out of bed. I’ve worked with THT’s, and what they are is skilled interrogators, not bed-robbing commandos. Another bit of sensationalistic well… lying.
There are obvious lies in the article. Most civilians would not know that, but a Soldier would. A Soldier who spent MONTHS, not days in that valley knows the difference between truth and lies from a journalist. You have lied about many things; I think that you are lying about having an agenda as well.
It’s all the rage and very easy to point out the FOB mentality, RYP, but the guys down there at FOB Kutschbach are not the fobbits you are looking for. They are the pointy end of the spear. That FOB is where they sleep, not where they hunker down and never leave. Again, the agenda. Again, the lies.
Having caught you in a number of lies in your article, it draws the rest of your assertions into question as well.
Here is my question: Do you have any involvement in any venture that would have the capability to provide similar intelligence to the military or NATO that would result in any remuneration whatsoever?
Oops, one more question: Will your answer to the first question be a lie as well?
Hey guys… it doesn’t take such huge stones to go downrange to Tagab in the back of an MRAP. I’ve checked this guy’s bio and he’s done some crazy shite, but this ain’t one of ‘em. Kind of a showboat, if you ask me… that archetype that Geraldo tried to pull off and couldn’t… but just as oleaginous.
[Reply]
RYP Reply:
February 17th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I think I smell Ground Hog day. Same questions different handle. Clumsy ability to mask similar themes…MRAPs, mustaches etc. I have answer most of the questions in your other post. You use the word lies and I am fascinated by the obsession with your focus on what I can see from an MRAP (pretty much anything I want to see from the turret, rear window, side window or from outside)
THT’s and sleeping afghans…dude, you know better than that. Are the late night missions, zipties and guns so they can better tell them bedtime stories?
Jones being an amateur? I focused on the reserve soldiers because they were the most eager and forthcoming. Your inference is an insult to them.
Booze? Downrange? There is more booze available to US soldiers on MF that I have access to in my neighborhood. Morales Frazier was one of the more jumping night spots I have been to in Afghanistan. Better to not go there..unless you need the hookup.
The rest of your comments I have dealt with (conflict of interest, skulls on helos etc) but making things up and calling me a liar for accurately documenting them says exactly what about our efforts over there and the public’s need to better understand?
I did not choose to take an MRAP to Tagab I wanted to take a taxi, but because I was an embed they choose my method of transportation. As for testicles and bravery..not required… but you could start with actually using your real name like I do.
[Reply]
An HTS Analyst Reply:
February 18th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Actually, Mr. Pelton, the problem is that the same pieces of information in your article is suspect to the people on the ground. That is why they keep asking similar questions. And let’s be serious — the mustache is outrageous. And you wouldn’t have it any other way.
You insulted 1LT Jones in almost every description, infantilizing him as a gadget hound, calling him short, insulting his schooling, and so on. Please don’t insult all of us by pretending that you treated him fairly.
I’ve spent time at FOB Morales-Frazier. I may have met some different French, but they have beer in their discotheque. That’s it. No booze. The U.S. soldiers there are terrified of being investigated and booted out if they’re caught drinking. You do realize that by lying about drinking with 1LT Jones and his Muslim interpreter that Jones is having to face an investigation, right? You are actively hurting him for no reason I can think of. It’s pretty surprising.
Anyway, since so many people are disputing your physical description of these places, I think you could end the argument by making your photos publicly available on your website. and posting a link here. Deal? That would put all of this to rest — the blasted out Humvees, the hot-rodded skull-choppers, the bullet casings, the gunner middle fingers (if you were indeed up there with him), and so on. Just show the evidence that what you saw really did clash with recent experience, and I know I will drop the subject and apologize.
[Reply]
HTS Member Reply:
February 18th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
You are missing the point! HTS is a joke, an expensive and dangerous joke, with Fondacaro and McFate laughing all the way to the bank. The amount of taxpayers money HTS members receive to do nothing is ridiculous and illegal at best. Fondacaro/McFate spend a lot of time and energy hiring people like the Lincoln Group to spread propaganda to win the hearts and minds of the Senate/Congress about this pathetic program, to bad they don’t spend the same amount of time and money in the training, hiring qualified team members instead of crunching numbers. If McFake is such an expert, getting paid big bucks from the pentagon, why doesn’t she go through the flimsy training and then deploy and help the dysfunctional teams in-theater they have deployed. I thank RYP and John Stanton for exposing these fraudulent people/programs. RYP, would you be available to testify to what you saw regarding the HTT teams?
Loved the article. Thanks again.
[Reply]
MoI Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 4:49 am
I know that some teams are not working out and that others are very successful. If you failed, don’t smear successful teams with your inability tp perform.
ps….this does not mean that all aspects of the program and the top managers don’t deserve some examination
HTS Member Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Mol…the majority of teams in-theater are NOT working out and have failed miserably. Which cycle were you in? Soooo, your team was the ONLY ONE that was a success? LOL.
RYP Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Now if you could contact the other HTS member and swap notes. There is much to be concerned about with the Human Terrain Program. Conceptually it is the perfect tool to support counter insurgency operations but executionally it is appears to be deeply flawed.
I would like to think that the people inside the program are the best judge of what needs to be fixed and the recent departure of their top fellow in Afghanistan speaks volumes.
The recent reduction of salaries paid to their top academics has added further stress to the biggest single impediment: hiring and retaining good PhD level anthros.
Perhaps most depressing is the need to ignore the interpersonal dysfunction, lack of logistical support and squandering of good people and their time. I was impressed with how many obstacles Jones and Rotzell had to overcome just to do their jobs and the deep divide between academic and uniformed personnel
I can’t speak for the other teams but even Fondacaro had me shaking my head when describing some of the obstacles and nightmares they have had to overcome. I found Steve to be pragmatic and perhaps prone to doing too much with too little in his efforts to save the tax payer money. He has a killing schedule and not much support either.
Tagab 07-08 Reply:
February 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
If my purpose was to sell my products for money, I would use my real name.
You meet challenges with more bullshit and insistence that you are only telling the truth. I join with HTS Analyst in calling for you to post the photos. It’s too easy… why not just prove everyone wrong.
Oh, and if you expect anyone to believe that you were in the turret of the MRAP during the movement, there will be another soldier facing an investigation, because that just isn’t done. Another lie.
It’s getting deep. That groundhog thing? It’s the shit piling up around you so deep that you look like a groundhog poking out of it.
It’s too easy, RYP… just put up the pictures. What are you holding out for? Money?
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February 17th, 2009 at 4:48 am
PS – Stanton, dropping a link would have sufficed. Thanks for filling up half a page with your cut and paste job.
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HTS Member Reply:
February 18th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Thanks Stanton. I appreciate your articles and for enlightening us with the above information. BTW, sounds like Fondacaro/McFake have their paid little Lincoln Groupies in this forum as well.
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Tagab 07-08 Reply:
February 18th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Dude, the truth is the truth. I don’t need to be paid to point out bullshit when I see it.
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HTS Member Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Duuude, the truth is HTS is a bullshit program that is costing taxpayers millions of dollars and most important to date 3 lives due to the programs bullshit training and hiring practices. Have you been through the program? If not, you have no idea what you are talking about. If you have, you are blinded by the money.
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MoI Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 4:56 am
I’m in the program. I am not a contractor. I’m an Army guy and I’m not blinded by money.
The training and hiring had nothing to do with the deaths. The first died with several soldiers in an IED attack. He was sitting in a moving Humvee. Training doesn’t prevent bad luck. The other two were former soldiers with beaucoup experience in Iraq and Afghanistan.
like I said before, if your team didn’t perform, that doesn’t mean all of them failed as well.
HTS Member Reply:
February 19th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Mol….You’re an Army guy…team leader? I understand there are some perks for the military that join HTS. I know you have to waive any rights for promotion while in the program. Plus, aren’t you promised some sort of a job with the program once you return to stateside? Also, by deploying with the HTS, you don’t have to do a regular deployment with the military. Just wondering. Personally, I think the military can and have been doing this same concept for quite some time and much better than the HTS can or have been doing. In fact, didn’t McFate/Fondacaro take this concept from the military for mega bucks.
The training and hiring had nothing to do with the deaths..??? Are you kidding. You are kidding, right. Think about it. Michael was working on his last chapter of his dissertation when he made his last trip. Nichole was working on her dissertation as well. The training was so bad, Nichole, like many others, never even showed up to most of the classes. HTS management lures some people in by telling them they can get their PhD while in the program and work on their dissertation while in theater. This is so wrong in every aspect. Paula, she was such a sweetheart. However, like many in the program, she had PTSD and should not have been deployed again. Had HTS/BAE properly screened applicatants, there may not have been 3 deaths. Their “bad luck” was being part of a program that cares more about the $$$ than the well being of its members.
In my opionion, this concept needs to be completely turned over to the military.
I worked with a number of teams. Like I said, most are dysfunctional no matter how hard one trys to get everyone to work as a team….some just don’t get it. And the training….let’s be honest, it is a joke, a dangerous joke. BTW, many either hate the military or they hate the academics or they dislike the Arabs in the program. Many are in the program for their own agenda’s, just like Fondacaro and McFake. The HTS program is a farce.
RYP Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 11:27 am
I think if nothing else I would hope that the HTS members would speak out about the program and let me get back to focusing on pirates and Somalia
)
I wanted to sign off by saying that I did not interview well known critics of the program but let the program speak for itself. During my embed, many if not most of the HTS folks felt very restricted in talking freely to me because of the intense scrutiny my article would put back on them. So it’s encouraging to see this forum being used to air some expert opinions (not mine)
Tagab 07-08 Reply:
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:18 am
Oh, there is money involved, alright. Money is great motivation to place a program that is not well understood and easily attacked in a poor light. But the money connection that is being pushed by this author and his alter ego here isn’t the money connection that needs a closer look.
Men’s Journal isn’t going to be so pleased when they find out that they were used.
February 20th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Mr Pelton:
I find it amusing that you freely accept (and indeed reference as supporting evidence) the anonymous statements made by commenters who agree with you on the flaws of the HTT program, while simultaneously demanding “real names” from those who point out inconsistencies in your reporting as a strawman defense against actually proving that you saw what you claimed to have seen.
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February 24th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
If you’re going to talk about Tagab Valley you might want to report the correct information. If you where there anytime after October 2008 then you would know that we dont eat out of a shack here in Kutschbach. Also if you really want to know what its really like down here how bout you stay here longer than a few hours!!! This article actually pissed me off!!! Im here on Kutschbach and it pisses me off that you report this bull shit!!! If your going to come out here anytime soon please come talk to me. I shouldnt be to hard to find I’m one of the only females out here!!! Thanks!!!
Briena
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Paul Reply:
February 25th, 2009 at 2:54 am
I have to agree with Briena, we both serve here currently at FB Kutschbach and what you say is untrue. Everytime GEN Milley comes down here he does not ride on a “Hot Rodded” Helicopter. Skulls on the Blackhawks are FORBIDDEN, even when COL Spellmon comes out here it is not on a “Hot Rodded” Blackhawk. You need to get your facts straight and stop reporting all of this Bull Shit you call a story. We certaintly don’t eat out of a shack and don’t report anything unless you stay here for a couple of days. Just staying here a few hours is nothing of a experience. Stay a while and learn from us. Just the normal routine everyday. Also why do you pick on LT Jones, i have worked with him at BAF and he is not a M4 crazed guy, he works hard and does his job he is assigned to. If you come out here again let us know and we will be glad to show you the real story and not your stupid ass bull shit you wrote.
Paul
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February 24th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Greetings all!
I have a 2007 briefing that I forgot I had buried in the 900+ emails I’ve accumulated writing/responding on the HTS series I’ve written. Once again for the record, that series is based on 30 plus sources in and out of CONUS. The briefing is titled Human Terrain System Update for LTG Kimmons (an Intel guy go here http://www.dami.army.pentagon.mil/).
Kimmons said the “let’s kick it out there (HTS) and see what happens.” Anyway, I’ve not yet used the brief in an article but would be glad to send it to anyone on this post who wants it. It dismisses the notion that HTS is not an intel-like program. Just send me an email with request brief in subject header and I’ll fire it back to you. The brief is also a game-plan document. Kimmons appears to be the chief noddle-pusher in charge on this effort.
Here is the latest from HTS Fondacaro sent to HTS Team Members yesterday. Some sources say this is damage control and 3/4 on the way out of program.
“HTS Teammates,
In the interest of giving you all the good news, all at the same
time, I am forced to ask you all for one more day of patience and
forbearance as we chase the last action through to approval at
Department of the Army level. Issues we are after are higher pay caps
(which are already resolved), danger pay and compensatory time. The
responsibility to get the right answers to you is mine alone. In that
same vein, that we are late doing so is my fault alone too. We are
breaking a lot of glass along the way, but its glass that’s long overdue
to be broken. The next time we answer it will be complete and it will
be right. Grant us one more pass on your already generous and patient
forbearance. In the interim, please throw any and all rocks at me.
Sincerely
Steve Fondacaro
PM”
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February 24th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
http://billandbobsadventure.blogspot.com/2009/02/picasso-pelton-old-blues-paint-by.html
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Human Terrain System Update
For LTG Kimmons By Bob Reuss & Dan Bourgoine, 31 Jul 07.
http://www.indymedia.org/media/2009/02//921401.ppt
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:24 am
I find your description of FB Kutschbach completely false. I would like to know where on the FB this command bunker is located? I would also like to see these HMMWV parts that are scattered to the left of the LZ. Who on this fire base did you talk to and they call this place “the cooch?” Have you ever been to FB Kutschbach? During the time that you wrote your article I was stationed on FB Kutschbach and no such things exist. Truth is there is no “command bunker”, and there are no IEDed HMMWV’s near the LZ, we don’t eat in a shack, we are all very aware as to what teams we belong to and what our mission is here, and we sure as hell don’t call this place the cooch!
Granted the Tagab Valley is a dangerous place, but the picture that you paint makes it sound like we are sitting on the beaches of Normandy on D-day. There are not constant mortar attacks on this FB. If we were to get attacked constantly don’t you think we would have put a stop to it? Or do you think that we couldn’t figure out which way to point our mortars? Who ever told you about “terrain denial” was fucking with you! We shoot the hillsides and the mountains because of intel that is gathered from various sources. There are no bunkers that are covered in brass. The only thing here that is covered with brass is the range, and none of that brass was from base defense.
People like you give the military and our missions around the world a bad name. You make the military look like a bunch of unorganized clowns that can’t figure out how to do their jobs. You make me sick! How about you pick up a weapon and find out what it is really like to be out here, and not on some BS PR dog and pony show. Don’t kid yourself either; every time a reporter comes to a “hot” area they get the same BS story and the same kid glove treatment. No reporter can say they know what a Soldier goes through or what they have to deal with. Not a single reporter can honestly say they know what is going on in Afghanistan or Iraq. You never spend enough time there. Sure you spend a week or two here a month there, but you get to leave. You escape and talk to you buddies, who also don’t know shit about what’s going on here, you and them go out for drinks and discuss how fucked up the military and the government is, all the while you embellish and polish up your story to get it ready for your editors. You never had a clue about how the military works, but you will sit down and write an article and make it sound like if you were running the show everything would be ice cream and rainbows. You don’t really care about what the American military is doing here, or about any of these men and women who have volunteered to protect your freedoms.
Thanks for pissing me off!
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February 27th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Fascinating…three people who supposedly work at the Cooch…all with the exact same talking points…posting at the same time. Psyops anyone?
))
Lets run through these..
- No one I was with called it Kutschbach
- I was there in the summer of 08,
- my photos are time coded and clearly show grim reaper skulls on both sides of the helos (five if you include the large skull on one of Milley’s PSD members. If you are in the military you know exactly which helos use exactly that symbol. Send me your email if you agree to post a retraction like others have done. I am happy to send them to you.
- The pieces of the Humvee were inside the gate to the left
- chow hall was on the left as you hit the sandbagged building, tv inside is on the left as you face the door, kitchen to the rear. Special Forces MRE cases also served as seats
- I don’t work in a vacuum, in addition to taking notes and photos I am traveling with a photographer, Jones, his terp and whoever is around me at the time. My article is also fact checked without my input and vetted by legal.
- I am glad that you agree its dangerous but when I describe it as such I am making things up.
The events at Kutschbach are a tiny part of the article. I am surprised that you display anger at articles unrelated to mine and ignore the entire focus of the piece. I ended up there and it was an interesting place. As I mention in the article, there is not much going on there.
Jones is portrayed exactly as he is in real life. Hard working, honest, frustrated and doing much of the heavy lifting. You can read his own comments about his M16 and custom cowboy holster for his M9 on his own blog
I completely agree that a journalist can never tell the entire story. The demands and space of media and even the subject matter do not allow for that. But I would suggest that having your own blog is a great way for you to tell your own story and educate others about what goes on there.
best
RYP
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Ken Reply:
May 23rd, 2009 at 5:47 am
RYP,
I’m not replying in regards to your last post, this just happened to be the most recent. I just wanted to say that I am a combat soldier currently serving in Afghanistan and I happened to pick up your article in an old Men’s Health that was laying on an MWR table somewhere. I thought that it was pretty accurate (especially in your depictions of Bagram, that place sucks) at least insofar as it was one man’s perceptions. However, I think that you got a pretty clear over-all view of some of the insanity that goes on over here, both in terms of combat situations and bureaucracy. You depicted the soldiers as we are, and if some people took offense to that or thought you were trying to be negative, then screw ‘em. Even if I don’t necessarily reach the same conclusions as you did or agree with everything you said (not in accuracy, but tone), I appreciated your writing style and I recognized the overall “feel” of the article to be highly realistic. I recommended it to a number of my fellow soldiers and we found it highly entertaining. I look forward to any further articles you might publish and I hope you return to combat journalism again.
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July 19th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
im in this task force that is written about in this unit, i know lt jones and htt. lt jones rode in my truck plenty of times taking him from bagram to morales frezier. lt jones knew nothing about combat he was an idiot to put it blunt. this article is right on the money. nothing is biased or anything. tageab valley is a horrible place we have been hit by ied’s there ppl lose there lives there all the time. its war and this war was underfunded and undrmanned. come walk in my boots fro 15 months. then you will believe this article.
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October 13th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Wow… Speechless. I know I’m a late-comer to this article, yet I felt I just had to comment:
This is yellow journalism at its finest. You suck.
Have a nice day.
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November 2nd, 2009 at 11:03 am
get hell out my country amrica shit
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June 18th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
I hope war in afghanistan can stop.
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