Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior With Mike Sarraille is a podcast that inspires individuals to live more fulfilling lives by having conversations with disrupters and high performers from all walks of life. In episode 40, we spoke to Jeff Osterman, former collegiate basketball coach, co-founder of “The 5th Quarter: Conversations: Beyond the Court” podcast, and president of FullCourt Dreams.

Listen to the full episode above (scroll down for the transcript) and see more from this series below.

This interview has not been edited for length or clarity.


Mike Sarraille:

Welcome to the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior podcast. I’m your host, Mike Sarraille. I’m joined by Jeff Osterman today, and I’m gonna tell this story. So Jeff has 25 plus years in collegiate, uh, athletics coaching. Uh, he’s impacted a lot of young athletes, and that was transitioned to a podcast that he’s running with his good friend, uh, Lason, is it pronounced Lason Perkins? It is, uh, the fifth quarter conversation’s beyond the Court. So Jeff knows this now, but we’ve been writing a book over the last year called The Everyday Warrior: A No-Hack, Practical Approach to Life. I think it’s gonna resonate well with people. But in the final revisions, we put a quote in the beginning of every, uh, chapter. And for the, uh, the preface, we, uh, ended up changing, making a last minute change. And the quote is, there’s nothing more powerful than a humble person with a warrior spirit who’s driven by a bigger purpose.

Mike Sarraille:
Signed Jeff Osterman, who I have never met. We found the quote, we loved it, it absolutely resonated with what we wrote about. And no kidding, uh, I would say about one week later, you reached out through Mike crei.com and said, Hey, I’m Jeff Osterman. Uh, 25 years in coaching. Father was a, uh, vet. And, uh, we said, no freaking way. And that’s what brings us, uh, here. But Jeff, I mean, 25 years being a coach and mentor to young athletes, not only competing at the, the the collegiate level, level, I’m sure you have some stories, but before we get into those stories, just a brief background, where you come from and what led you to, uh, collegiate athletics.

Jeff Osterman:
Thanks. It’s a privilege to be here and, uh, we’ll dive into that and we’ll tell some good stories. But, uh, basically grew up right north of New York City. Played, played ball my whole life. When it came time for college, um, I could have played at a bad division three just decided that was enough and I was gonna be a business major. And, uh, something popped in one day. I figured I could be a coach. I did some camps and, uh, a couple people took chances on me. And I entered college coaching and made a living. And I’ve gotten to go to some great places, meet some great people. But, uh, the end of my coaching life, I wake up, I’m in a Marriott out in Kansas, and I have the realization while I’m eating a buffet breakfast, my wife is raising our, you know, eighth grade son at the time, and I’m just not a present parent.

Jeff Osterman:
And we, I felt, I just got caught up into chasing my dream. And, and again, we had benefits, but it wasn’t worth it. So we moved back. We’re northwest of Orlando by about 30 minutes. Her parents are probably 20 minutes south of us. So we’re really fortunate. I, uh, get to drive my son to and from school and, uh, you know, I know my time’s running out, uh, but I wanted to leave my d n a, so I’m like Fred Flintstone at four o’clock, uh, I go down the dinosaur tail. I work at a premier prep school, Mount Vernon Academy in the development office. I deal with athletic boosters, but most importantly, I’m a parent. And, uh, my buddy Lason Perkins and I decided to start the podcast. And the, in the beginning it was coaches, but we pivoted to thought leaders, authors, military veteran owned businesses. Anyone that can help my back nine of my career is I just wanna leave a legacy, even one person at a time, just trying to help people.

Mike Sarraille:
We, we often refer to it as the legacy of leadership. That one leaves the, uh, leaves behind, uh, good friend Rich Vinny, who wrote the book Attributes calls it the irony of leadership. Cuz when you think about it, the job of a coach, a mentor, a business leader, it doesn’t matter, is to work themselves out of a job by making the next generation and those coming behind them that much, uh, better. And I know having worked with a lot of coaches and, and, and I love that you guys pivoted, uh, you know, there’s a fascination in the business world that has a fascination with really two industries. One, the military and two coaches. And, and I think if coaches probably, you know, uh, more probably the football, uh, coaches, but I mean, there’s, there’s some coaching greats from the NBA A that just are, are amazing.

Mike Sarraille:
And I actually had, it’ll come to me, um, NBA coach, one of the winning fifth or fifth winningest coach in the nba. It’ll, uh, coach Carl on, uh, my my previous pod podcast. I mean, the nuggets of wisdom these guys have, uh, over that, you know, the decades they, they coached and the the failures are are absolutely amazing. Let me, let me start by this, what drove you into coaching? And I know one, you played basketball. Was there a coach you always looked up to in, in college basketball or pro basketball that you’re like, man, I just wanna be like that guy.

Jeff Osterman:
I loved my high school coach. I don’t know if he was technically the best coach. He did football and basketball, but back in the day, I would do anything. I would never question. It’s just what drove me. And I, I still can remember some of his talks and, uh, so I didn’t wanna be like my dad and my brother wearing the suit coming home every day. I wanted to deal with young kids. I wanted to play a role in, in these days, statistics are off the chart. Uh, you know, and I coached women for the most part, but there’s so many father figures missing male role models that I really thought there was a need. Obviously basketball, you know, they say great players aren’t great coaches. Well, I wasn’t a great player, so hopefully I was a little bit better as a coach, but I just saw the crystal ball of, it’s not so much the x’s and o’s, you know, you can watch clinics, you can rent movies and coaching glisten. It’s really about connecting with young people. And I just found that niche. I think listening was probably, and may still be my best skill, that I really dive into the person, listen, kind of jointly come up with some goals and come up with a plan to attack them. So my high school coach, Michael O’Donnell, B one, and then, uh, I’ve met great people along the journey, but I just wanted to be involved with young people.

Mike Sarraille:
Isn’t that amazing? The, the, the impact a high school coach had, probably not only on you but, but you know, hundreds of other young men that drove them on to, uh, to do great things. So I came back from New York, and you know this cuz we, we were scheduled for last week. I ended up being in New York and delayed, and I ended up, uh, on a united flight home from Newark. And I sit down, the guy sits down next to me and we, you know, sim simple airplane banner. And then the guy looked familiar and he’s asked me what I did and said, Hey, a retired military. And he said, oh, great. And, and it turned out to be, uh, uh, Tom Herman, the former, uh, university of Texas football coach amongst other universities. And we started rapping, uh, about our philosophies on, on, uh, on leadership and culture building and working with, uh, with, with young leaders up and coming leaders.

Mike Sarraille:
And he actually said the same thing. He, uh, he actually had, you know, you know, a single family mom, single mom, uh, raised him. And every time he had a question about certain things about manhood, she always directed him to his high school football coach. And he said the guys on the team were his brothers. The coaches were his fathers. And, and that, you know, without them he would not be, he especially wouldn’t have played collegiate, uh, football. He would not be where they, uh, where he is today without those, uh, those manners in his life. So, uh, that’s actually, there’s, there’s a lot of parallels here and a lot of coincidences, uh, between you and I. Um, as you, you know, a lot of, a lot of coaches are transactional and, and that’s not only in in collegiate sports or pro sports or, or the business, uh, setting or the military setting. A lot of coaches are transactional in nature. And I think by, by nature of the hierarchy, uh, players will still do what the coaches ask and demand of them. Uh, what do you think sets aside a transactional coach from, uh, probably your style? Is it, is it just you start with building that authentic, genuine relationship and go from there? Or is that just a work in progress acro, uh, across time? What, how does trust work into that equation for you?

Jeff Osterman:
I think it’s the biggest thing. I think transactional may work for a game or a, you know, a series of downs or a, you know, a fourth quarter. But I think it’s short term shortsighted. And, and we were even talking back when I was growing up, coach said something, you listen, if in in your world the military, there was no explaining why you had a mission or a task and you did it. And now people can disagree and dig in their heels, but in everything, we’re having to explain to this generation a little bit of more why we’re doing certain things. And I think for, uh, you know, one of the biggest differences, coaching guys and girls, I think besides technical stuff, guys did not trust right away girls. They wanted to please you, but they were really, really careful about letting their guard down.

Jeff Osterman:
So I think in both the similarity was if you could connect to them, then you had them. I think guys you had to be careful about fixing or correcting in front of their peers and their buddies were girls. You would kind of take it as approach for the team to succeed. I need you to do one, two, and three. And I, again, I think by connecting with people, learning what makes ’em tick and what’s their goals, you can remind them of that when you wanna coach them. And one of my final questions in preseason meetings is, are you gonna let me coach you this year because I know the secret sauce I can get you, you showed me your list of goals, but you’ve gotta be open to letting me coach you. And, and, and just like in anything, some people you push, some you pull, you’ve gotta figure it out. And I think correction is the biggest thing on how you correct people. Some you can challenge them in front of their peers and you know, they’re gonna stick it up your ass and they’re gonna show you that they can do it. Others would just, you know, turtle just go in the shell and they’re not gonna respond. So I think you really, again, team success first, but you have to connect with the individual.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. The sum of its, uh, its parts. You’ve seen a lot of cultures, uh, amongst the various teams you’ve, you’ve coached, uh, you’ve probably seen a lot of different, uh, coaching styles. What is that coach that you worked with that just created the ultimate team oriented environment where people were willing to put their needs aside for the, uh, let’s say the overall good of the team?

Jeff Osterman:
And, and it’s hard. I think a coach is a leader, you know, someone that people will follow. In its simplest terms, that’s what a coach is coaching to me, is getting a group of people to accomplish a goal. Hopefully a common goal. But these days you may not like it. There are individual goals that come into it. If you were to look at sports, say golf, college golf, we wanna win the championship, but there’s five individual scores, so it’s a little bit tougher, you know, coaching men’s basketball guys want their touches their minutes cuz they wanna get drafted. Yes, we wanna win. But I think one of the best examples, uh, bill self Kansas, who’s won the conference umpteenth time, they said they will forget these people out here in Kansas will forget when you were drafted, who picked you, what number your contract if you don’t win the big 12th conference. Because if you look up there, there’s a lot of great players, but they’ve all won the big 12 conference. So I think I love reading all types of leadership books, sports, military authors, and kind of really, it, it comes down to motivating people. Again, I can motivate my kids really well, if you’re that much better, you probably beat me. But I think we’re gonna reflect, we’re gonna get every ounce that we can to make sure if we can’t beat you, we’re gonna compete with you to the nth degree.

Mike Sarraille:
That’s, uh, I I couldn’t agree more. Uh, I, I’m a strong believer that one plus one equals three if the culture is, uh, is right. Um, what are, what are some of the, the core tenants you try to instill in the, the, these young lady leaders, uh, at the collegiate level? I mean a lot of them were not gonna continue on at the pro uh, you know, the W N B A, um, if anything after their 4, 2, 3 years of you, what did you want them to walk away with that would set them up for success outside of basketball?

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, it, it, it’s funny that, uh, you always had the boosters I wanna be involved in, Hey coach, how are we gonna be this year? And and my answer was, I’ll let you know in 20 years when I can see how many CEOs, teachers, coaches, great spouses, parents, you know, that’s again, I would tell kids. And I was very honest in recruiting and it changed once I became a father. I was a young slick use car salesman. And when I had my son, something clicked and I changed my approach in recruiting to, I’m taking your most precious gift for four years. I’m gonna tell you we’re gonna win a lot of games. We’re gonna lose some games. You know, we had Yukon in our conference who had won 94 in a row and you know, as much as you’d wanna say, Hey, we’re gonna win the conference, that was quite a challenge.

Jeff Osterman:
But I will promise you this. I’m not gonna promise you playing time. I’m not gonna promise you awards and accolades. I promise that your, your daughter’s gonna walk across that stage that she’s gonna be a better person and a a better citizen and she will have a supportive family. And, you know, and the only thing, and people would say, well coach, why’d you do it? I said, I’d just like to thank you. And I would remind those parents, I said, Hey, in four years, you know what I want? I want to thank you and that’s it. And we would have so many great laughs. But I think the DNA that I left on people is just a unwavering work ethic. You know, teaching you how to bounce back when you fail cuz you will fail. Everyone’s gonna fail, especially with Connecticut and some other people, you know, but failing on the court on a Wednesday night doesn’t mean you can just skip class and shut it down. You know, Thursday morning you gotta bounce back and um, yeah. So those are the, the accolades, the human trophies that I really loved.

Mike Sarraille:
Well it, it sounds like you were trying to sell the parents on your character, at least let them know that their children were, uh, well not children, young, uh, teenagers were in were in good hands. To what degree did you guys recruit for character over skill? Skill? Hey skills, skill’s important? And I’m not saying that you have to have the, some, some bar or above the bar the minimum, uh, of skill, but to, to what degree was character most important to you in the uh, the coaches?

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, I think it’s easy to, we could go to a gym and you and I can pick out, you know, you and I would agree on seven out of the top 10, I might look for different characteristics that I’m fond of, of you know, no hips and quick feed and big hands and things like that. But once you find who you want to recruit, and I’m sure it’s the same in business and in most walks of life, then I wanna peel back the onion and learn about them that I wanna see you and, and, and parents are in the dark about, we don’t really care if your team won in summer ball cuz you play three times a day. We don’t really care if you win or lose. Sometimes I’d like to see you lose. I’d like to see and I’d go to a parking lot, I’d pretend to be on my cell phone and I would watch how they would act because their parents probably told them, Hey, make sure you know, coaches are here.

Jeff Osterman:
Make sure you behave, you know, everyone’s looking. But when you go to the parking lot, that’s when you saw a lot of people just erupt. I think I wanna go talk to the school lunch lady. I want to see how they deal with a referee after a terrible call and, and really just figure out what makes ’em tick. You know? And, and, and I was never at a place where I was the top of the mountain, the, uh, Connecticut, who could really, uh, pay attention to just talent, but they did a really good job of character. So for us, especially coaching a female sport, you know, you could think, Mike, you had a great practice the next day you walk in, you had three girls here, two by themselves, five over there, and you have no idea what happened. But you know, you gotta play Louisville in a few days. And uh, so I think character is what a lot of people don’t. And, and I could go on about the transfer portal and every sport that people are just chasing talent. And the old Brad Stevens Butler teams, why they won, they had maturity, they had the buy-in from guys and they had that common goal. Yeah,

Mike Sarraille:
Talent only gets you so far. It’s, it’s like the, it’s like according a, uh, a man or a woman, depending if you’re a man or a woman, see a woman across the bar, the first ingredient is, is attraction talent is is the first, first ingredient for, for, for sports or anything that you do. But then it’s the, the, the team factor cuz somebody who’s not willing to play as a team or to put their needs aside for the go, the good of the greater organization, like you said, because they want their points higher, they need their touches that that’s going to, that’s gonna poison the culture that is gonna poison the culture. And I see this, I use this in this analogy in baseball all the time, you know, the Yankees are, are usually the highest paid baseball team in the MLB.

Mike Sarraille:
But, uh, they, they, they don’t, they aren’t always the best team. They, they have most of the best talent, but then the San Francisco giants come along who again don’t have as great uh, uh, level of talent, uh, of leaders. But man, it’s amazing what they can do as a team is they’ve got that factor, they’ve got that culture. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s everything. And I’ve seen even in the seal teams, there were platoons of 18 guys that had better talent even though they all come from the same talent pool. And then there was a a, a platoon of lesser talented guys, but just the humility was so, so tangible and eventually they would overcome the, uh, the, the other platoon.

Jeff Osterman:
I think it, it’s kind of forgotten of the giving of yourself and, and it’s hard to explain it to young people. I don’t know if I would’ve always got servant leadership, but that’s what makes me tick now and what I do. It’s, it’s really my legacy and it’s not my ego quote legacy. It’s going to be what they tell my son about me when I’m gone. That the difference that he helped somebody less fortunate or he stuck up and fought the good fight. That to me is my legacy and what’s important. But people, they still want the accolades, they want the individual. I think it’s a maturity maybe, hopefully that people catch on that it, it’s more power. And we,

Mike Sarraille:
Uh, I, yeah, I don’t think it’s so much maturity ma’am. Cuz you look at pro players and they never shed that, that attitude. And I, I would much rather be on a winning team where I, I maybe I rode the bench initially and I got in in the, the second quarter, then be the star player and the team that’s losing. I, it’s, that’s just not it. It’s a no-brainer. Everyone wants to be part of a winning culture as long as that that culture is healthy. Yeah. That, that’s my

Jeff Osterman:
Opinion. No, I’m a hundred percent I’m all for the team. And it’s, it’s the memories you with your sealed teams, me with some of my teams, they’re gonna remember, they’re not remembering you scored 30 points against so and so they’re remembering the great win where we came back or we had such a great trip together. And it’s hard coaching when you have one superstar and 14 others down here. It’s really, really hard to keep people these days with social media when you break out for film sessions, it, it’s really, really hard. Where if I had a choice, I’d rather three or four or five really good pieces instead of one or two great ones. Yeah,

Mike Sarraille:
It’s, you know, as I think about it, they’re, the seals are much like a basketball team. You, you’ve got a star player, uh, and then, you know, it’s, it’s a normal, it’s a talent distribution. You’re best all the way to your worst no matter what level you play at. Even in the nba, the Chicago Bulls had the same talent distribution just much further right on the, uh, the talent, uh, sort of chart. But, um, not one seal would’ve lasted more than 10 minutes had they gone on a mission by themselves. They’d be done on, on the targets. We, we went across, um, there was, it was almost like blood in the water. If somebody was so overtly about themselves, it was blood in the water. And it’s almost as if the culture had a way of taking care of that individual by themselves. Whether, uh, well let’s just say they them, uh, when, when, when necessary. Who, who’s that player? And I don’t want names, but give me, gimme the scenario that player that, that was very, very good. That knew it. And how you dealt with that player to to, to humble them or at least put ’em on the path to, to humility.

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, there’s a kid still playing in the finals of the W N B A named Courtney Williams, and she was by far the best player in the building. But I would try to come up with team goals, team challenges that took her individual skills maybe away and kind of came up with more team goals. I would challenge her in a team drill about how much she could do to uplift other people and, and really you to break it down to the bottom level. Our team wouldn’t succeed as good as she is. If she didn’t have her teammates playing pretty well, we weren’t going to succeed. So I think she, she had a pretty good buy-in and then you just talk to her as a person. And, uh, that’s probably the most proud. I am hearing the stories and I have some inside access about the fans in Connecticut, how well she treats them, how much they love them. If it’s someone old, a little kid, she really makes time. And, and that was part of it, just becoming the whole person, not just a great pull-up jump shooter

Mike Sarraille:
That is, that whole person concept is, uh, is powerful. And it’s one we wrote about in the book. It’s one I wrote about in in this book right here. It’s, it’s sort of the basis of how we assessed and select people into the special operations community as not only physically, mentally, spiritually, or you could say emotionally. Um, how often were you looking for well-rounded people sort of within those, those those pillars?

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s huge. Just like in in your world, you’ll have your best, but if they’re not bringing up the rest of the boat, I don’t know if they’re a great leader, they’re a great individual. Yes, we tried to get the best talent, but always in mind knowing we needed a lot of pieces. And it’s kind of like a puzzle if those pieces didn’t fit. And we had teams for that season where on paper, wow, we got a lot of talent in this room, but the puzzle doesn’t fit. It’s, it’s just individuals. It’s different agendas. It’s outside noise and it, if they’re not picking up each other cuz everyone’s having good days and bad days. I think same thing in, in a boardroom, uh, and, and I think someday my leadership book is in basketball, there’s so many skills that relate to business. We just happen to use a scoreboard, but it’s recruiting. I’m trying to get the best sales team possible. You know, we have scrimmages and exhibitions, we review tape, we work on fundamentals and culture. All of those things all carry over to a boardroom. But we all know sometimes chemistry, it, it’s hard to describe, there’s no secret sauce, but you know, when you have it and it’s even more evident when you know you got crap chemistry and you’ve gotta figure out how to get through and manage egos in the seasons.

Mike Sarraille:
Well it, it all translates anyone who doesn’t think that what we did in the military or what you did in collegiate sport doesn’t translate to what they do. I, i I will, this is where I’ll stand my ground and say, you, you’re wildly wrong. And to say that business doesn’t use a scorecard, oh hell yes, they do. Um, you know, one, there’s QBR where they’re setting, uh, the yardstick, the, the, the measurements for the previous or the next quarter, KPIs, OKRs, it’s absolutely the same thing. Business absolutely uses, uh, a, a scoreboard at the, you know what I, I always like to say this, at the end of the day, you’re selecting athletes into your program from probably multiple different states in the military. I didn’t get to select who my troop chief was. It was like an arranged marriage. And you’ve gotta find a way to, to build some shared adversity between those two PE people.

Mike Sarraille:
And they’ve gotta make that relationship work amongst much like your five players, that they’ve, they’ve gotta find a way to build relationships. And relationships in my opinion don’t always mean that they’re best friends. It’s, it means that they can work together. Uh, one of the things we, we often hear is, is this person a culture fit? And what people are really saying is, do I like this person when rather they should say, if this is this person a culture fit, and by that, do I respect them and do they have values that align with my values? And if they do, whether I like their personality or not, that’s fine. That’s a me problem. I can absolutely work with them come Monday to, to win whatever basketball games we have that that week. I think people get that about culture. They completely get that wrong, uh, a lot of times. But translation, everything translates.

Jeff Osterman:
No, I agree. I think I may not like you per se, and we may not hang on a Friday night, but if I know you have my back, I may not like you, but if something ever happens, I’ll be the first one there with you. And, and, and that’s just real world. And we try to relate sports to the real world. And you know, if you don’t wanna be that thumb, you don’t want four people going in one direction and the thumb making a left turn because just like in sports and trout, you’ll get cut. They’re not, unless you’re that 1%, they’ll make a change the trade, whatever. And that’s, you know, it, it is sad that some people don’t get, sometimes you do have to look in the mirror, you know, and that’s one of my big things in trying to teach young people. You gotta reflect, you gotta pass the mirror test every night that you know, you did your best. You may not have passed everything or gotten perfect grades, but you gotta be able to look in the mirror and know you tried, you know, take a, you know, we used to say 24 hours and, and bounce back

Mike Sarraille:
The, uh, the reflection piece we talk about a lot. So I’m huge on this. The, one of the most common threads that I’ve seen amongst high performers of any industry, regardless of your profession is reflection. The best in highest performers are all always highly self-reflective. Now, I, I remember specifically guys that stayed into the SEAL teams 20 plus years. They had these, there’s these green notebooks in the military you can go check out and you can have as many of them as you want. And these guys were always writing in those books after every mission, after every training cycle, everything every day. And they had volumes of books on their desk from the start of their career to the end of their career. But they all had this process where they were reflecting on a nightly basis, whatever that process was for them, of basically saying, Hey, what did I do? Well, more importantly, what did I do poorly? And how can I fix that going in tomorrow?

Jeff Osterman:
I, I, I think journaling is so good for me because I do reflect sometimes too much, but I’ve gotta make sure I just don’t wanna make the same mistake twice. Like, I wanna make new mistakes, I’ll learn from it, but I don’t wanna look back and go, wow, crap, I just did that. And, uh, like basketball, one of the things and, and especially coaching females, is people would miss say a layup, something easy that you can do. But it would just affect their mindset for so long that I used to give them a rubber band. And I said, once you find yourself going down that slope, just pluck the rubber band, it will snap you physically, hopefully mentally to, you know, the next play mentality. And you know, I think hard coaching is baseball. So if you make, uh, three outta 10, you’re in the hall of fame, but that also means you’re failing seven outta 10 times. And what if it’s a slump and it’s 14 in a row or 21? How is that mindset of that player professional the best? Um, that’s where it comes in that, you know, you’ve gotta reflect, you’ve gotta work hard, you’ve gotta look at tape, do extra reps, but you also have to be able to turn that page.

Mike Sarraille:
Easier said than done my friend. We all know that and we’ve all been there. So you’re saying your players physically had rubber bands on the court and you’d see them doing that,

Jeff Osterman:
Right? Uh, uh, yeah. Just

Mike Sarraille:
Where did you pick that up?

Jeff Osterman:
I don’t know, probably in some books, some journal, but just those kids that would really have a hard time. If I threw you a pass for a layup and you missed it, it might not be me messing it up, it was you. But my body language, my demeanor was, you know, you, you see it in all sports. The the one person that you know throws their hands up in the air and you know, look at me and the, you know, the vertical pronoun, they’re an I person at all times. You know, those people get affected because Mike missed the layup or missed the cutoff that hey, snap back, you gotta move on. Next play mentality

Mike Sarraille:
Resiliency is, uh, I think that’s something we try to breed into all our kids. I think as parents, sometimes we fail to let our kids fail, is we’re too overprotective and we, we prevent them maybe from being scenarios where they, we we’re, we know they will fail. But, uh, I, I’ll tell you the one thing I saw, and we knew this cuz I went back as an instructor. Those who lived lives of struggle before they got two buds to seal training already had resiliency built in. So we saw NCAA athletes, some gold medalist Olympics, uh, Olympian, uh, Olympians failed the training where maybe one guy was five five and just had always struggled through high school collegiate athlete or, or or anything else. Nothing came easy. And they were the ones that ended, ended up making it through the training. And you saw them at the very, very end of the pipeline. We always, we always found that people that faced a lot of hardship in life and learned how to pick themselves up by the bootstraps always did extremely well for themselves. Again, uh, in contrast to athletes who things came naturally to and then ended up in, uh, in seal training.

Jeff Osterman:
And I think I used to worry too much about the helicopter parents that were always around hovering, I think the worst now. And, and my son’s 16, so we did the travel circuit and all of that is the steamroller parents that behind the scenes are in front, that they’re just plowing the road so their son or daughter will succeed instead of failing or sitting on a bench or flunking a test or whatever it is that they’re going to, whatever means they can is just steamroll and make an easy path. Well, if, if you don’t ever have adversity until you’re high school, college, whatever, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know the studies you’re setting yourself up for a big failure

Mike Sarraille:
Late to the game or prepare yourself to be able to, uh, to, to steamroll that, uh, path for the rest of their, uh, their lives, which will, which as we know will be, uh, e exhausting. You talked about, uh, journaling. What, what is it, what are those habits, man, that you’ve got on a daily basis? Do you journal on a daily basis?

Jeff Osterman:
I do. Um, I have a pad right next to my bed, so in the middle of the night you think of something, you know, and sometimes it’s upside downs in scribble, but I have a journal and, and I have a bunch of them on the bookshelf now of just either thoughts or things that I wanna accomplish maybe that I didn’t think of because I was so involved with myself or with the sport of just trying to help different people. Like with this podcast of, first it was just about Lason and I and some coaches, but then I was like, we have a little bit of a platform. Let’s see how many other people we can help, you know? And if it’s one listener at a time, that’s great, you know, and it’s, it’s something that, uh, I think it was my second or third year at South Florida, I started an angel giving tree, you know, and I had a tiny platform.

Jeff Osterman:
We had a modest fans, but eventually the thing grew, you would see quote elderly people bringing in bikes that are assembled. In one of my last years we had, I think it was like 300 toys, we had eight bikes, we had gift cards. And it just, in my mind, it made a difference for people maybe that weren’t as fortunate as me, that they woke up Sunday morning, you know, with a bike and a Batman helmet. And so I think more people just need to, you might not think it’s a big platform and it may not be, but I think listening a smile, it’s, it’s hard. You know? And I had great parents, you know, you see the person on the side of the road, and I know sometimes it’s uncomfortable, but it’s okay as long as it’s safe to talk to somebody, to, to offer, to help. Is there anything I can do? Sometimes they just wanna talk. And so that’s kind of what drives me, you know? Right now it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit different. Yes, my hours are shorter, but I think journaling for me is what’s next? What can I do next to make a difference?

Mike Sarraille:
I, I agree with you on the, uh, on the standpoint of, hey, even the small platform can do so much good for, for for many, what was it? Uh, Alexander the Great said, uh, the, the, it’s, you know, the actions of the few that dictate, uh, for the many, um, or the fate for the many. I, I think people need to, to, to refocus locally rather than, than, than than beyond their, their immediate communities. And I think social media is to blame for that to a degree, is people are losing that sense of tribal, uh, nature or the community around them and just focusing on affecting that. And naturally everyone knows, cause you create a really good local community that’s, it’s, it’s like it, it’s gonna metastasize and it’s gonna grow and it’s, it’s gonna, it’s it’s going to, to band out. Um, I’ve gotta ask you, do you drive your wife literally crazy by turning on the, this the bedside, uh, table?

Jeff Osterman:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. But now the cell phone, if you tap it, it’s got a light. I, I, I’ve probably driven her crazy Mike way before then, but not to go on a tangent, but with nine 11 being a New Yorker, and my dad had worked in those towers numerous times. He was New York telephone nine x became Verizon. But what a special, uh, of course the worst of the worst. But I just share the story about how people really took care of people. It didn’t matter what you looked like, what you believed in, people really got down to taking care of each other. And, and, and I’m not some old wise Al, but I didn’t know how long it would last. But boy, it, it really was impactful trying to tell, you know, my 16 year old who, who’s just gonna read about it, that the world really was a different place soon after that, that people cared about each other and looked out for

Mike Sarraille:
Them. I was just in New York, as you know, specifically for nine 11, and I did have time to make it to, uh, to ground zero, which absolutely, the monument is absolutely gorgeous. Um, but you’re absolutely right. It should not take a tragedy in what, 2,977 people that passed for us to come together. I’m, I’m forgetting where the quote comes from, but it’s basically of the, of, uh, of, at, at, at the worst times, we are at our best. And regardless of political disputes, you, you’re absolutely right. It’s amazing how unified our nation became, uh, flag sales went through the roof. People were enlisting, enlisting, enlisting to, to go bring the fight to, to those that had, uh, made those towers fall. But, um, there is good to be found in bad times. And, and there’s a, uh, a great guy, if you ever have ’em on your podcast, Sebastian Younger wrote a book called Tribe, and he talked about that during the, uh, the Bosnian Serbian, uh, conflict that some of the, uh, you know, sort of encircled towns had to share electricity at certain hours and share food and resources. And years after the fact, a decade, he went back and interviewed him on those times. And some of the people said they wish they could go back because they treated each other with such respect. They were unified. And even though resources were limited and times were hard, they’ve never felt such a sense of community like they did when they were encircled. That’s, that is, that is amazing. I think we, we get entitled, we get comfortable, and when we do, we, we, we miss the big picture.

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah. And it’s, you nailed it. It shouldn’t take something catastrophic to bring us together. But even pandemic, when there was shortages of food, people around, you know, we would ask neighbors, Hey, I’m going to the store if they have chicken, do you want me to get you any, yay. Let me go get you money. No, I don’t care about money. I said, just tell me, you know, as simple as just asking and looking out for people. And, you know, short story. We grew up New York, right north of the city, and when you had a snow day, right, you were excited. You would have to, before anything, you had to shovel our driveway and our front porch. And then, um, before we could go play pond hockey, my mom and dad would say, go across the street and start shoveling the neighbors. And I was like, what?

Jeff Osterman:
They could hire someone. They could, you know why? Uh, and it was just, that’s what we did, that we would do their driveway before we got to play ice hockey, you know, in full circle. My dad, towards the end, he lived in that same house and hand to God, we had neighbors that would bring his garbage bell down, would bring his newspapers to the front, and it was like a holy shit moment. Like, wow, they’re up there smiling, because that’s what they instilled in us. And it’s sad, but people look at you crazy. If I were to go outside and grab my neighbor’s garbage ba and start coming up the driveway, they would think I’m crazy. But in Kansas, that’s what we did. We, you know, the first time I saw my next door neighbor and he was, uh, air Force, uh, and I was like, wow, he brought up two people’s garbage PS And I was like, all right, I love this way of living. And, uh, you know, so that was really impactful. But it’s sad. It, it takes something catastrophic, you know, pandemic or the towers or something like that.

Mike Sarraille:
If anything. From, from from coaching these, uh, these young leaders, what did you learn from them?

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, wow, good one. Um, I probably didn’t realize how fortunate of a life I had. Um, there was one young lady who I had recruited. She was a good talent, really liked her, got to know her, and with, in a short time, her father had gotten shot in a drive-by. So he was in the hospital and she, they said he was gonna make it. She went to a tournament, he didn’t make it. So when she came home, her dad was gone and with, I think it was two to three months, her grandfather had passed. So she had no male figures really in her life. And I’m thinking she’s at that time, 16, 17, and I still had both of my parents alive at the time. And I’m thinking, wow, I don’t know if I was a teenager, if I could really fully understand what she’s going through. So I think to be appreciative of what I have and what I was given and to share it, I think, yeah, you can hoard it and you could have the most whatever it is, but okay, what good is it if you can’t share it with other people or friends? And, uh, and I think that really left, uh, a mark on my soul.

Mike Sarraille:
Did you, any of your former players still contact you and say, Hey, coach, just wanna say thanks.

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, that, that’s the best part of coaching, especially in junior college when they were with me for two years, we go to university and you’d get the call or the text that said, thanks, it wasn’t that hard. You prepared me. I’m, I was, you know, meant to be here. Um, I think that’s in a nutshell why I coach the relationships and, and I’m kind of, uh, my wife would probably another reason. Uh, she would think I’m crazy, but I’m the guy that I’m gonna win Powerball next week. I’m just a positive mindset guy that, and if I won Powerball, Mike, I’d have the biggest party, I’ll invite you, but I’m inviting all my former players and they’re gonna do impressions cuz they thought, you know, they’re in the back of the bus doing imitations of me while I was in the front of the bus, probably laughing at them.

Jeff Osterman:
But, you know, the, the sad thing is one of the first gals I recruited, I think it was seven, eight years ago, um, uh, passed from cancer, but there was was a few of our old players with her, and they called me on the phone and she was just in pain. They were, they, you know, called me in and it was so impactful that I could, you know, really just make her laugh at that time, you know? So I’ve been to weddings, I’ve been to birth, sad. Um, you know, I’ve lost players. We lost one of mine I think two weeks ago. She was a successful, beautiful person out in Milwaukee, like good morning Milwaukee. And, um, she had some mental demons that just, uh, you know, were too tough and, uh, it was just too tough for her. So those are the things. And she and I would talk and text two to three times a year and, and I’m thinking, wow, was I too self-consumed?

Jeff Osterman:
Was I not listening or not reading or, you know, so again, tragedy. So I’ve made a better effort even in this two weeks to reach out to not just players, but friends and college roommates and people that I haven’t touched base and to just say, Hey, how you doing? No, really? How you doing? You okay? You need anything? You know, you can, you can call me. And it’s, I think if we all check on each other a little bit more, we can get through the bad day at work or not meeting your sales quota or, you know, failing a test or getting dumped by a boyfriend girlfriend. But I think again, it leads to that post nine 11, if we can check on people. Yeah. It makes a difference, you know, and on the podcast I’m learning obviously more and more about soldiers transitioning and, you know, so that’s something I wanna, I wanna pick up the cross and run with it in whatever way I can.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. The, you know, won my condolences, uh, on the loss of, uh, of your former, uh, athlete. You, you know, you just can’t tell you, you can’t tell certain people. They, they’re, they, you see ’em in the morning, they look great. They’re, they’re smiling and then all of a sudden they take their life that night cuz they’re wearing a veneer. And yeah, we see this heavily in the, the veteran community. And, um, I would like to think we’re getting better that people feel they can be vulnerable and say, Hey, something’s just off here. I’m, I’m not, right. And just to ask for help, the, the <laugh> I need help are probably some of the, the three of the most powerful words you’ll ever hear. And I don’t know why it’s so hard. And, and you know, I’m gonna take that back. The initial days of the Marine Corps, that wasn’t a common phrase we used cause we were so concerned that it showed weakness when actually I think it’s the opposite. It shows such a degree of moral courage. I need help. Um, and when one person sees someone do that, the others around them may be more apt, uh, to, to actually ask for help, uh, as well. So again, Mike condolence is on the, uh, the loss of your player.

Jeff Osterman:
No, uh, thank you. And I think, again, it’s social media, right? Cuz it’s all crap. We look at Instagram, you’re having the perfect meal in the perfect sunset and you know, everything’s great. You’re skinny be, but we don’t see the 17 other pictures that you took or the sacrifices you did. It’s, it’s social media is what it is. It’s not gonna change. But we’ve gotta get past that. You know? And, and I I I went back and looked at her social media and everything and little things. There was no signs. You know?

Mike Sarraille:
Ah, well I’ll tell you what, behind this door is my wife and, uh, she’s waiting for me to finish this podcast cuz I’ve got what we call poop patrol. Uh, and I’ve, I’ve held it off for a couple days. Uh, but yeah, I’ll never post that. It’ll just be me and her smiling at the, uh, the next dinner. Nobody, nobody ever, I wish people would post about their failures more often. But the thing is, when you put in, you’re gonna write a book. When we wrote a book, do you know what the worst part about it was? Putting yourself out there, because these, these keyboard, I’m not gonna call ’em, uh, warriors, these keyboard, uh, cowards now hiding behind anonymity can make these, these comments on social media about your book, about you. It’s character assassination. And, and so I think a lot of people are holding back from, from, from putting themselves out there or admitting their mistakes.

Mike Sarraille:
And all they’d say is just, that’s gonna actually happen. It’s go, go look up, uh, Teddy Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt’s, uh, man in the arena, quote, disregard the people in the cheap seats. Uh, they’ll always have comments. Uh, all you care about is the people in the arena to your left and right. And if they’re picking you up and cheering you on, that’s all that, uh, all that, uh, that matters. I, I do agree with you. Social media is crap. It was, uh, I think, you know, it does have utility of someone living in New York to maybe check in on somebody in California and see how they’re doing or communicate. But it seems like we’ve emphasized quantity over quality, particularly with, uh, relationships. And I’ve heard that like, oh, this guy has, so this guy has this many followers and he doesn’t follow anyone. Like, how cool is that? I’m like, is it, is it cool? Because your definition and my definition of cool are completely, completely different.

Jeff Osterman:
It is. And, and people don’t, they get caught up right into followers. But for 1995, I could get a thousand followers before we finish this. You know, it’s, it is what it is. There is good for social media. I do see value in it. Um, but, uh, it’s hard, I think for young people that are caught up into followers or you got this outfitter, did you see those sneakers? And I think it’s hard for young people.

Mike Sarraille:
It’s comparison in comparison is the thief of joy. That’s what it’s become. Um, you know, where, where did I hear this? Was it Bill Maher? It might have been Bill Maher. Uh, his show, I, I, I’m pretty sure it was, they said they took a poll recently of uh, Chinese kids in school. Uh, in contrast to American kids and Chinese kids, one of the number one answers of what they wanna be when they grow up is astronauts. And now in the US do you know what it is? So the social media influencers, that’s the overwhelming majority of kids want, want to be social media influencers, don’t get me wrong, I’m using social media as a tool and I, and I have a team that run, run my accounts, but we’re heavily on LinkedIn by nature of the leadership consulting. We’re heavy on LinkedIn. Cause I do believe that that is the last bash in of social media right now. There’s great conversations with leaders in the industry that, that happened there. Um, but I, I’m not a fan of Instagram, Facebook, uh, ticky talkie or, or Twitter <laugh>. Um, and I steal that from Amy Van Dyk. She calls it, uh, ticky talkie. Amy was a six time gold medalist. Uh, yeah, it, it missed my generation. I use it for business purposes and that’s about it end of day. Yep.

Jeff Osterman:
I agree. I think LinkedIn is, again, it’s probably an older generation that’s using it and we see more value in it in putting a question out there and getting substance verse you posting the perfect dinner at the beach, you know,

Mike Sarraille:
So we usually end these Yeah. With, with a number of questions. And, uh, first one is hardest decision of your life

Jeff Osterman:
For Mike. For me, I was in the middle of my career in South Florida and I got offered the head coaching job at, uh, at another Division one, north Florida. And, uh, there were some other reasons, but I, I remember and I didn’t have long to think, but I let too much doubt creep in. And, uh, I didn’t bet on myself. And I, I probably, I went back and forth. I think, yeah, I was relying on loyalty, which turned out to be a one-way loyalty. Uh, but I think it was really hard. And looking back, I probably should have bet on myself

Mike Sarraille:
When, what was your wife saying? Take it.

Jeff Osterman:
Uh, she left it up to me. You know, JC was young and uh, there were red flags, but again, at every job there were red flags. But, and, and I’m pretty self-confident on certain things, on most anything, especially basketball and, and my abilities in that to recruit the right kids and to win. But I kept thinking, oh, I’m gonna get something better. Maybe this isn’t. And I started making mountains outta mole hills and um, yeah, I didn’t have long, but I eventually, uh, passed on it. So that’s one I kind of went back and forth on.

Mike Sarraille:
So this may be the, uh, answer to the second, uh, question, which is, what is your biggest regret? Probably, probably that

Jeff Osterman:
Business life. Yes, personal life. Um, when my dad was near the end, he’s up on Cape Cod between my brother and sister at the time. And, uh, we weren’t sure. Things went really downhill very, very quickly. And um, I wasn’t sure of when to get on the plane. He was telling me not yet. And my brother and sister said I had time and eventually I said, okay, I’m gonna just do it tomorrow. You know, screw everybody. And um, so, you know, I got on the flight but he didn’t make it. By the time I landed, I had a text from my brother, you know, so I’m ready to get off the plane, hop in, you know, I had a car service ready to take me. But yeah, so, you know, regret personal, I would say that would be it, that I didn’t, you know, go up a day or two before.

Mike Sarraille:
It’s amazing how often we hear that story where parents will, will tell their, they’re, we’ll, we’ll tell they’re they’re now adult children to stay. I’m fine. I’m fine. Cuz they don’t want to disrupt what you have going on. Uh, selfless in, in, in a way. What do you think about

Jeff Osterman:
It? Yeah, it really was, my mom was such great, great faith and I remember towards the end before cancer got her, I was in the hospital room with my dad, um, and two Catholic priests when she, um, received last rights. And I never, I’m really strong in my faith, but I had never seen someone with so much faith and I was like, I hope I can get to that point someday. Cuz she told the priest she was excited to see Jesus. And I’m like, your body’s ridden with cancer, you’re in pain. You know, you’re leaving your husband and three kids. But she was happy in her faith, right? That’s what she lived her life for. And I was like, wow. I mean, it was, it was beyond sad, but I was like, I hope I can get to that point in my figure

Mike Sarraille:
That is, uh, that is sweet on so many levels. And I think there’s a lot of people to include myself that wish we can get to that level before our time comes and we actually are heading that direction. Uh, before we do, what are those one to three leadership principles, traits or virtues that you hold dear to your life that had, uh, that have led to the majority of your success? Those things that are non-negotiable, non-negotiable in your eyes?

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, I think for me it’s, it’s, I, I mentioned it earlier about my legacy, um, you know, my life purpose. And, uh, I can tell you it has nothing to do with the wins, the losses, the awards and accolades. I think someday when I get up there, uh, the big guy’s gonna say, did you do the most with the talent I blessed you with? You know, so for me it’s, I wanna be the best in everything. And, and it’s a growth mindset that everything that makes me tick, I wanna be better. I wanna be the best friend you’ve had. I wanna be the best short game chipper putter, you know, I wanna be everything. I wanna be the best. But I believe really in my heart of servant leadership, and it’s not so much selfish. The golf might be a little bit selfish cuz I keep getting my tail whipped, but I just wanna help people.

Jeff Osterman:
And, and it’s amazing when you tell people, they ask, so what do you want, you know, for the podcast, what do you want us to be a sponsor? I go, no, I just wanna help. I wanna have new friends. I wanna make a difference in people. And I think I, I, I’m really good. For me, my number one thing is empathy. I think it’s really important to listen, like I have a sign somewhere back here, um, which is f a k E, which is faith, family excellence, uh, sorry, faith, family, accountability, kindness, empathy and excellence. And those are some of the traits that I hold dear, that I hope my son will carry on, that he would pass on that. Those things are kind of what makes me tick these days.

Mike Sarraille:
You know, this is, uh, twice that you’ve brought up servant leadership. And I wanna get your opinion on this cuz I, I think it’s a term that’s wildly overused in people sort of take on a, uh, uh, sort of apathetic or passive stance as a leader. Uh, does servant leadership, cuz you just said the word also mean occasionally, that you gotta put your boot up some one, one of your people’s, you know what, and, and I I’m not talking physically, I’m talking accountability. Servant leadership is also about holding people accountable to help them learn. Would you say that’s accurate?

Jeff Osterman:
Yeah, I think again, a coach has impact of 15, a football coach, a hundred, uh, you know, military, different amounts. But I think everybody can be a servant leader. It’s, to me, simply it’s one person at a time. Are you better after our engagement? It could be listening, it could be a smile, it could be a conversation. I’m still old school that I follow up with a written note and it’s more about checking on people, you know, and sometimes I’ll listen to you and I’ll say, Hey Mike, can I be honest? Can I, you know, do you, it is like, will you let me coach you? Can I be honest and give you devil’s advocate, another point of view? And if we have that trust, I think I value your opinion. That may be the boot. But I do want you to sometimes tough love people say negative. I think, and again, new Yorker we’re kind of a little bit more honest and blunt, but I think tough love’s, okay, like sometimes I gotta say things you need to hear or, you know, being married, sometimes you need to listen to things, uh, that you maybe don’t want to hear.

Mike Sarraille:
Accountability is how you deal with it. It’s how you dish it out, uh, and how you, you handle yourself in, in administering, uh, accountability. But I, I am a believer, uh, that the highest form of love or compassion is accountability. I mean, think about it with JC your son, you know, you see him do something wrong. You’re quick to come in and say, Hey, why’d you do that? Did you think about the outcomes? Cuz you just, let’s say you offended somebody, there was no reason for that. And how, how you handled yourself and holding them accountable cuz you want them to become a good contributing, uh, human being. Uh, again, contributing, being contributing to, to society and that community. But, um, I think a lot of leaders shy away from holding people accountable. And, and hence arguably are not in a lot of ways leaders,

Jeff Osterman:
Right? I can do you sell your soul to accomplish one short-term goal or are you trying to build towards the big common goal? And, you know, parenting, I related and I remember when he was elementary school and we talked and I said, you know, in school I want you to do your best if that’s an A, a B, a C, whatever. But the thing I would lose it on is if your teacher told me you weren’t kind, I said, don’t be one of those that, hey, if you got B’s or all C’s, but you were really, really kind, I can live with that. I’ll support you. We’ll figure out a way to try to overcome any weakness. But I just think so many people against steamroll towards what their desired result is. I I I’m just not one of those that I think, yeah, we’ll work towards it together, but accountability, a lot of people just forget that those are lessons you gotta learn, otherwise it’s a slippery slope.

Mike Sarraille:
Well, accountability is also enforcing or teaching people someone almost like discipline. If you look at the definition of discipline, it’s external punishment for said name and fraction. It’s the same thing you’re trying to teach your kids to not sort of live off external discipline but develop self discipline. It’s the same thing as accountability to develop self-accountability. Cuz there’s nothing better than when one of your young leaders comes to you and says, Hey, Mike wants you to know I did this, I did it wrong and here’s how I’m gonna fix it. There’s no conversation to have be had other than, Hey, good job. So I, you know, we often use discipline in accountability. It’s actually self-discipline, self-accountability in my opinion that we’re trying to steer people, uh, towards. And ultimately I judge people on behaviors, not what they say or, or, or, or the values that they put up on the, uh, the wall. Jeff, one, one more question. Uh, and we’ve, we’ve sort of alluded to it. When all is said and done and Jeff Osterman is on his, you know, his last, his last few minutes, how are you gonna evaluate whether you lived a life of impact and purpose?

Jeff Osterman:
A again, I’ve probably said it way too much, but it’s, it’s that legacy of did I impact people enough that maybe they reached a all time low and I was the person that they called or trusted, or I motivated them to become, not just settle for good, but become great. And I think, you know, for me it’s an every night check is when I look in the mirror, you know, did, did I do the best job I can, job, parenting, job as a spouse, job as an employee, as a leader, you know, so th those are the things. If I can keep passing those tests one at a time, uh, I’ll be happy,

Mike Sarraille:
Jeff, that’s a great answer. Uh, and I will agree, you know, uh, impact is the greatest currency in life. The listeners have heard me say that before. It’s the, uh, the truth cuz you can’t take any of this shit behind you with you. So that’s all, all you’re left with. And, uh, if you can be the single candle that lights a thousand, uh, candles, then, uh, you lived a pretty, pretty damn good life. Hey, there is one, let me, and I know this is, uh, well, we don’t have a script, but if there’s any parents listening, there’s one poem I used with my kids that I think just incorporates everything you and I Jeff have just talked about. It’s called The Prayer of Tecumseh. And it is one of the most powerful, of course, Tecumseh was a, a warrior, one of the, but, you know, exemplified a warrior in the fact that he didn’t, he understood war was necessary for the protection of the innocent, but he did, took no pleasure from engaging in, in the act of war.

Mike Sarraille:
But it’s one of the most powerful poems. And I’ll tell you what, uh, I will butcher it probably we will, we will, uh, write it out within the transcript of this, uh, this podcast and put it out, uh, for all. But go look it up after this. I think you’ll love it. And anyone else who googles it and looks it up, it is the ultimate, uh, sort of lesson, the nightly lesson for, uh, for children. Jeff, where can people find you and follow you? Because you’re, I mean, everything you’ve said is just, you’ve put out all these, these great nuggets of, of leadership and wisdom from your 25 years. Where can, where can people find more?

Jeff Osterman:
Um, all the social media is Coach Osterman, <coachosterman@yahoo.com>. And the podcast is called, it’s the The 5th Quarter: Conversations Beyond the X and O’s. And then my other entity is Fullcourtdreams.com, which basically a lifetime of experience. I wanted to help young people who didn’t know all the answers or all the BS that comes from college coaches and help young people get athletic scholarships and be able to get an education. So it’s kind of a consulting side hobby that I really like. And, you know, how do you answer a coach, you know, an interest letter, they want to come to camp, or just different things that parents know. Sometimes their child is talented but they don’t know how to go about it. So, um, really any of those. And I, I respond to everything I get.

Mike Sarraille:
I, I bet you do. And, and we finished with it. We’ll end with it again. This quote from Jeff Osterman just explains it all. There’s nothing more powerful than a humble person with a warrior spirit who’s driven, driven by a bigger purpose. Jeff, I can’t thank you enough for joining us and for all those that are listening, thank you for joining the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior podcast. I’m your host, Mike Sarraille, and we’ll see you next time.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show and pick up a new issue of Men’s Journal magazine. Men’s Journal magazine has features on health and fitness, adventure and travel style, and my favorite, the coolest gear hitting the market today. Until next time, I’m Mike Sarraille and thanks for listening.

Episode 41

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 41: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior With Mike Sarraille is a podcast that inspires individuals to live more fulfilling lives by having conversations with
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Episode 42

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 42: Dr. Jason Wersland
In episode 42 of the Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior Podcast With Mike Sarraille, we spoke to Dr. Jason Wersland, founder of Therabody.
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Episode 43

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 43: Lamar Stevens
In episode 43 of the Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior Podcast With Mike Sarraille, we spoke to Cleveland Cavaliers forward Lamar Stevens.
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Episode 44

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 44: Taye Diggs
In episode 44 of the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast, we spoke to actor Taye Diggs about his show, 'All American.'
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Episode 45

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 45: D.J. Vanas
In episode 45, we spoke to D.J. Vanas, an enrolled member of the Ottawa Tribe and a former U.S. Air Force officer.
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