Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 41: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon

Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior With Mike Sarraille is a podcast that inspires individuals to live more fulfilling lives by having conversations with disrupters and high performers from all walks of life. In episode 41, we spoke to Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, a functional medicine physician and founder of the Institute for Muscle-Centric Medicine.

Listen to the full episode above (scroll down for the transcript) and see more from this series below.

This interview has not been edited for length or clarity.


Mike Sarraille:
And welcome to the Men’s Journal Every Day Warrior podcast. I’m your host, Mike Sarraille. I am excited. Well, I’m always excited for all my guests with, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, who is a muscle-based doctor?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Kind of Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
Well, you had me at Muscle <laugh>. but you believe health is, is so dependent on your muscular

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
System. System. I do, yeah. I, think that right now in our society, we’re obsessed with obesity. Everything about everything about

Mike Sarraille:
We, but I think we should be obsessed. Are you?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I mean, we can be obsessed with obesity, but it seems very victimized. Why not be obsessed with muscle? What if obesity wasn’t the problem?

Mike Sarraille:
But do, do you agree that obesity is the problem right now? It’s, it’s an epidemic.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Of course. Of

Mike Sarraille:
Course. You look at Covid alone wasn’t people classified as class or level three obesity, which is morbid obesity. This is, last I read, had a higher, uh, morbidity rate than anyone else.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
We know that anyone that is obese struggles with multiple health challenges in terms of their survivability. The more overweight you are, the bigger the issues you’re gonna have.

Mike Sarraille:
And, and I know you’ve seen the stats, uh, decade over dec decade, the obesity, uh, percentage continues go up, is I know that for the us is that the same

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Worldwide? I think that’s a good question. I’m not sure. I, I’m not sure worldwide, but I can definitely speak to the US and I mean, over 33% of all people are obese. Well, or

Mike Sarraille:
Overweight. But when you travel, you know, one of the things I, I always look at when I travel is like, you go to Asia, whether it’s East Asia or, or, or the Middle East or even some European countries. I mean, the amount of people are that you see are less obese than walking down the street. Yeah. In Austin, Texas.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I mean, we’re pretty domesticated and we have a lot of luxury here in the us We have a lot of choice and we have a lot of processed and highly palatable foods. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And what is so interesting about our culture is that we’re a culture of convenience and not necessarily a culture of hard physical work. And I think that that destroys us.

Mike Sarraille:
You know, it’d be interesting to see is, uh, like take a study of from the sixties and how, how many people or how many steps people got in on a daily basis compared to, uh, to now.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Do you know the average during World War II? Cuz I, I was looking at the stats because I was really interested in nutrition during World War II. And you’re probably like, why is that? Because a lot of the narrative kind of things that we’re hearing today have almost circled back from them.

Mike Sarraille:
But how so?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Well, well, I don’t wanna get off topic, but let me, let me tell you this. So the average male during the World War II era was about 150 pounds.

Mike Sarraille:
That’s pretty low.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
That’s, yeah. And the average female was 120 to 125 pounds. No

Mike Sarraille:
Kidding. Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
And the reason I was looking at it is because I was very curious about food intake and rations. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the rations, meaning, you know, for the listener is how much food, you know, during war times, how much food was allotted per person. The calorie intake for a ration was about 3,000 calories.

Mike Sarraille:
A person for one ration

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
For a person.

Mike Sarraille:
What, what is it like a day? So is it, when you say ration, is that the equivalent of a meal ready to eat for the military now in,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
For a 24 hour period of time? Like this is, here’s your burrito. Yes. Yeah. Mike did have a burrito here. Not necessarily on the muscle centric plan, but Hey, who is criticizing

Mike Sarraille:
My, my wife is on a girl’s weekend, so I’m, I’m so

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Bummed I don’t get to see her. The, rationing would be, okay, so Mike, here’s the amount of calories you’re allotted mm-hmm. For the day. So a typical female who maybe is looking to lose weight might be at 1600 calories a day. Yep. For them to survive and probably still be hungry. They were rationed 3000 calories a day. Still

Mike Sarraille:
Low,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
No, 3000. Of course it’s low for seal, but for an average person, that’s way too many.

Mike Sarraille:
But an average person, you’re saying at war,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
no, that was on the home front. The

Mike Sarraille:
Home front. Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
And now, and so if I just told you that the average, uh, size of a male was 150 pounds and they were around

Mike Sarraille:
3000 calories.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
3000

Mike Sarraille:
Calories. That’s, that’s a lot.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
And the obesity crisis or the waist size and overall size of the human now is much, much larger. You know, and where does that come from? Probably comes from movement. Right? Nobody’s moving you literally, I bet you, you could stay home the entire weekend, get everything you need delivered. And aside from walking your dog, probably don’t have to do anything.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. And, uh, you know what? You, you probably look at it c made that worse. It did. Because people now are, it became habitual. Yeah. If you’re stuck in, let’s see, people are what stuck from maybe three to six months or maybe never even went back to work, they just started ordering in, it becomes habitual.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yeah. And the biggest problem with Covid, I think, aside from isolating everybody, was what it did for the health of the population. So let’s say there’s guys at home and, you know, maybe they’re in their fifties and they were really on a great trajectory for training. Yeah. And now they got out of going to the gym and for them to come back is much more difficult because they, they lost muscle mass. Can they gain it back? Yeah. But as you’re aging, it becomes more difficult. Which is really the whole premise of this concept of muscle centric medicine. Right.

Mike Sarraille:
We’re we, we are gonna get there. Cause I do have, uh, I do wanna hit that cuz as I’m getting older, like I prided myself on, on how I looked. You wanna call that vanity? I don’t give a shit <laugh>. you know, you know, I remember marine officer once said, Hey Mike, an ounce of appearance is worth a pound of performance. People will judge you on how you look. And, and the merit in that statement is, that’s just human psychology. Uh, you, you don’t go to a bar, see a, uh, you know, obese woman say, wow. You know, it, it’s attraction. But, let me hit this before. I want, I, I wanna get back to your, your pedigree. Uh, I know you were born, you’re here. What happened in between, I wanna get to, but, you talked about a victimhood mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And now it seems like people, and, and they use the word body shaming.

Mike Sarraille:
And, and it’s like this trying to protect the victim on a, I’m trying to think if it was, it was a glamor magazine or, or one of the female magazines. They said, this is the new sexy. And they had a, a relatively obese woman in, in a bikini. Now beauty is subjective. You know, that is, people like different forms, different colors. And that’s to the, that’s, that’s that person’s perspectives. And they’re, they’re entitled to what attracts them. But when it comes to medical or health, that’s not, that’s not subjective. That’s objective. Right. When somebody is well, outside of their BMI or whatever metrics you want to use, they’re obese. Objectively from a health perspective, they’re,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It’s gonna be a challenge. And it’s not gonna set them up to age well, especially with an increasing body fat percentage that would be in the obese range above 30%. That’s, it’s not gonna be healthy. And then the other thing that becomes really important is why is, why is the society, are we doing that? Why are we highlighting obesity and saying that that’s something positive. There’s nothing wrong with being on a trajectory where there’s challenges physically. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. We all have gone through that, or we will. And it’s not to say that if someone is struggling with their weight, they should be shamed. Never.

Mike Sarraille:
Of course.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Of course. And I think that that’s really important cuz that’s not what we’re saying. But what I think that we can both agree upon is what we should be celebrating is ways of health. Yes. Ways of health that are, uh, objective. Meaning what are your, what is your blood sugar at mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what are your fasting insulin levels? What are these objective markers of health? And, and then the other thing that I’ll I’ll mention is that memory and aging and Alzheimer’s is a major problem. And I did my training, one of my, I did a fellowship in geriatrics and obesity medicine, nutritional sciences

Mike Sarraille:
And obesity leads to a higher degree

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Of Alzheimer’s. Yes.

Mike Sarraille:
You’re kidding me.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yes. So

Mike Sarraille:
Unless you’re sealed and you’ve been blown up local times. And then

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yeah. That’s a whole other story. But, uh, yeah. Tbi, but definitely metabolic dysregulation and wide waste circumference is a risk factor for Alzheimer’s.

Mike Sarraille:
Okay. So this, this was the opening, uh, let’s get to, to Gabrielle. Yeah. Where were you born and raised? I know you went to the University of Illinois.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I did. I was born in Chicago and, born and raised. Yeah. Born, my dad is a major Cubs fan. Born and raised in Chicago.

Mike Sarraille:
About the Black Hawk or Black Sox?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Uh, no, no, no work. Yeah. Okay. Right. Uh, born and raised in Chicago. And I actually graduated high school early and I moved to Hawaii. So I graduated high school in three and a half years. And I moved to Hawaii

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. To do,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I moved and I worked for room and board with my godmother, who is a PhD in nutritional sciences. No kidding. So by the time I was 17, I was very interested in health and wellness and from a more holistic perspective, she was very ahead of her time. Her name was Liz. Is Liz Lipsky. And, uh, in the functional medicine space, she’s one of the, the cornerstones. Yes. Not saying that you’re old Liz, but, older. And, uh, then at that point, you know, graduated high school early, moved in, lived with her for a year, became very interested in nutrition, and went and did my undergraduate in human nutrition, vitamin mineral metabolism.

Mike Sarraille:
So island fever, first off,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Is that a thing? Oh my God, I would never have left.

Mike Sarraille:
What people who say island fever, I’m like, there’s so much to do on Hawaii, how get bored. I agree.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yeah. I would’ve never left.

Mike Sarraille:
But you had to get, you had to go to school. So you basically took a a year off internship

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Before? yes, actually I was right on, on track. Okay. Uh, to graduate. So maybe it wasn’t quite a year, but it was close to eight months or so.

Mike Sarraille:
And then your major in college was

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Human nutrition, vitamin mineral metabolism with a chemistry minor.

Mike Sarraille:
And here you’re, you’re 17, 18, you know what you want to do. Yeah. That’s in, that’s

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Insane. Yeah, I did. And I was very, very driven. And, you know, uh, at first I thought I was only gonna do nutritional sciences, and I say only as if it’s, it’s easy. It’s not. But when I was at the University of Illinois, there was a tornado, tornado warning, and we all had to go to these fallout shelters. Right. And it was during nutrition class. And I’m sitting there in this fallout shelter going, oh my God, I am totally fucking useless right now. There is nothing that I can contribute in this moment if something’s gonna happen. And it was at that moment, I decided I was gonna go into medicine. Maybe it’s a character flaw, but I really do feel that if you have the capacity to be of service, that you should be

Mike Sarraille:
Damn right. Yeah. Service to others is, yeah. That is what if you, if you ask me what is missing in in society, it’s service to others or being more selfless to the, the, the overall goal of the United States. And number one plays that, uh, that part. so you graduate and is it direct to medical school or,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
So here, here’s the, the most amazing part about, and I’ve thought a lot about this, you know, are we, do we have people placed in our lives that help change the trajectory of where we’re going? Or, or is it if we pay attention to it? And I would tell you that I am put on this earth to do this exact very mission that I am so uniquely placed to do, which is really interface, this concept and paradigm of thinking, which simply a paradigm is a way in which we structure thoughts and a way in which we operate off of that structured thought of this interface between muscle and health. And, and I’m gonna get to why that is. So I landed at the University of Illinois and I went there because it’s just a phenomenal school. Yeah. And it has a great nutrition program. Yes.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I knew nothing else about it. I happen to have been mentored and land in the class of a man named, Dr. Donna Layman. Dr. Donna Layman is one of the world leading experts in protein metabolism. Okay. And he discovered him and, and his group discovered that, the amino acids protein, and that, well, I’m sure we’ll get to it, is required in a meal threshold amount. Meaning how much protein that you had in the burrito is going to determine if it actually stimulated your muscle or not. He determined this. And you know, it’s interesting. I’ll say as a side note, we take all these things as it relates to nutrition for granted. Like, oh, we could just read it in a magazine. These things, these, discoveries took decades. They take a lifetime for people to discover one little thing. Right. So I happened to have landed in Dr. Layman’s class, and he cha I mean, there’s probably four world class, maybe 10 now. World class protein experts. That’s one of them. And he’s one

Mike Sarraille:
Of them. Now were you, were you assisting with some of his research?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yes, I was unfortunately collecting urine and, uh, all kinds of things when I was in my undergrad. And I didn’t even get my name on a paper because the, the, uh, policy is if you are an undergrad, you can’t, you can’t. And you’re there to do the work. I never went to a football game. I spent all my weekends doing research. yeah, it was quite exciting. That’s insane. Yes, it was insane. I was also doing fitness at the time too. You remember the Fitness America? I did that. No kidding. Don’t hold it against me. All right. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
We’ll, we’ll dig up, uh, some photos.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
No, we will definitely not do that. but he changed my perspective and my way of thinking, and he’s mentored me for the last 20 years. And part of my mission is also to take all the work that he’s done and be able to provide it to the public because researchers notoriously are in their own, uh, sphere. Right. They’re in their ivory academic tower. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which there’s nothing wrong with that. Doing the really hard science work, which then gets translated to the rest of the public like 17 years later. Yeah. So whether you believe in DMA or karma, whatever it is, changed the trajectory of everything that I thought and did.

Mike Sarraille:
When, when did the muscle centric medicine, sort of like, cause until I met you, I had never heard. Okay. That nomenclature before.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yep. that’s cuz I made it up. I made up muscles. Yeah. And so I had come from this place of nutritional sciences mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then continued to be mentored by one of these world leading experts. I went to medical school, which I really, really hated. And then I did two years of psychiatry at the University of Louisville. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I was very interested in the way that the mine interface interfaced with decision making. And, and you know, I’m also very interested in human performance, mental performance, but that’s not what actually psychiatry is. I found out the hard way. I was really naive. then I left psychiatry and did three years of family medicine. And you asked me where did muscle centric medicine came, uh, come from. And during psychiatry, I didn’t really think so much about the muscle interface, but I was very into fitness.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I was still doing all my fitness stuff and, and very interested in it from a personal level, but I hadn’t made the connection between overall health and wellness and fitness. But it gets better. So then I did three years of family medicine and I started interfacing, you know, started seeing rounding in the hospital, seeing these diseases of obesity. You know, here we are, we’re at the hospital and you get to pick what you want for breakfast if you’ve been in the hospital and it’s like pancakes and toast and it’s just terrible food. And then, but we’re gonna give you a side of a diabetic medication. Here’s your insulin and then here’s the rest of your crappy food. So I started thinking, wow, you know, this is, this is a little bit of a broken system. And then I did a fellowship. So a fellowship is you, and by the way, I don’t recommend anyone who is listening to ever do that amount of education ever is brutal.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
but after family medicine, I realized that I, I I wanted to go back to my roots of nutrition. So that was always kind of the plan. And I went to Wash U in St. Louis. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I went and I worked in one of the, uh, most well-respected labs in the country in terms of nutritional sciences. And I was working on a project, right. Part of my job was to do clinical research as well as interface in geriatrics and obesity. And I am a people person and I became very involved with the research subjects. I was seeing them for. There’s, there’s something called EU glycemic clamps where they’re there for 24 hours. I did cognitive testing on them. I would go with them, uh, when they would do their training. I did muscle biopsies and fat biopsies also don’t recommend anyone ever doing that if they can avoid it. And brain imaging. And there was this woman who I loved, and she was the mother of three and she was in her, she probably early fifties, somewhere in her fifties. And I imaged her brain like I was doing for the rest of the, uh, participants. And her brain looked like an Alzheimer’s brain.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
50 is not that old. She is the mother of three children. And she always put everybody first. And she was the woman that always struggled with those, that extra 20 pounds. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and her metabolic aray because of her overweightness was going to crush the rest of her life. And she did not even know it. And it was at that moment that I realized that we were failing these people. That it wasn’t because she wasn’t trying. And it wasn’t because she didn’t have enough knowledge or effort. She had been to Weight Watchers, she had done all these different things. She had yo-yo dieted her whole life, whether it was 20 pounds overweight or 30 pounds overweight or this holiday or that holiday. Her brain based on imaging looked like the brains that I had seen in the dementia clinic I was working at,

Mike Sarraille:
Which in the average age in the dementia clinic would be

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Way

Mike Sarraille:
Older seventies babies.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I had spent also two years working at nursing homes. Right. On weekends, my responsibility was to cover these nursing homes. And so I saw at the end of life what that looked like. And the path that she was on and the trajectory that she was on was similar to nearly everyone’s trajectory because of this whatever obesity epidemic. And what struck me was a light bulb moment. You asked me where did muscle centric medicine come from? Is that,

Mike Sarraille:
That moment

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I feel like we were missing the boat. How many years have we been trying to treat obesity? 30. We’re not getting any better. There’s almost 8 billion people in the world. Many of which whom are overweight or struggling with obesity. And we haven’t gotten better. We’ve gotten worse, we’ve gotten worse at treating this. But

Mike Sarraille:
If, if you’ve gotta sort of put a finger on that, it’s, we’ve gotten more knowledgeable. We’ve put the knowledge out there. But you said it earlier because we’ve become such, you know, it’s become a life of convenience, of ordering Uber Eats or, or was it Dash DoorDash?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yeah. Or not having the, you know, or not having the capacity to get the help that’s needed. Or that we have a culture where we’re like a warrior culture where we prioritize these things. This woman had tried again, we, she’d spent 30 years trying to lose the same 20 pounds. And I knew looking at her brain that she was gonna struggle to be able to call her kids. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you asked me where it came from, and it came from the fact that I felt personally responsible, that I felt that we failed these people. And that if I didn’t do something that was what was gonna happen. And I realized and that, you know, we do dxa and we, we looked at her body composition. Yeah. She had like no muscle mass. And if I were to think, okay, what is the root cause of all these things? It’s

Mike Sarraille:
Muscle.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It’s muscle. That she had never spent her life building her muscle. That these diseases of insulin resistance and these metabolic diseases that were now treating 30 years later for her began in her twenties in her, in her muscle. And had we spent the time as a medical community to say, listen, we’re not just gonna measure your body fat. You’re gonna come in here and we’re gonna measure your strength. We’re gonna look at under ultrasound the quality of your muscle. If the, if you are sedentary, you are sick. There’s no such thing as healthy sedentary. We were designed and genetically created to move. That is our homeostasis. That’s our baseline. But now it’s optional. And you know, as a society, we’re failing people in providing this message. And, you know, you come from a very unique perspective as a seal. You guys are the elite. I don’t, I mean, don’t tell my husband, but the reality is physically elite. And that’s true. So there’s a culture there that it’s not okay to be, uh, not training or to put on, I mean, you guys put on weight obviously, and, and you lose it. But it, it’s a, it’s a culture of toughness and physical, you know, and physicality.

Mike Sarraille:
But you’re always moving, you are always moving. Right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Always moving. But even the majority of the guys that, that transition out, right. I take care of the majority of the guys in my practice are on, you know, in that transition out mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s still part of who they are. And I think that we as a society can do a better job of showing that this is where health starts, but it’s also where illness starts. By the time you’ve put on weight, you’ve already destroyed your muscle. Let

Mike Sarraille:
Let, let me stop there because I wanna ask one, two questions. One, for this lady you keep referencing Yeah. In her, her early fifties with, you know, the brain definitely show indications of, uh, dementia. Is that reversible now, if she changed her habits, if she started becoming muscle centric with her diet and her habits in life, was the brain reversible or was the damage done by that point?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
largely from what I’ve seen, so I’m gonna answer this in two parts mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I do want to provide hope where hope is possible. One thing is for sure, if she did not get this under control, it would get worse. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it would accelerate. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, let’s say that there is damage that is done. That damage can be mitigated to some, you know, for some perspe, you know, like some amount of that can be mitigated. But one thing is absolutely for sure that if this does not get corrected, there is going to be an exponential decline. Not just because of her brain, but again, when, you know, as people age, if they fall, what is going to allow them to survive? Muscle is muscle. Yeah. Is muscle. So yeah. That’s where muscle, that’s where muscle centric medicine came from. And I realized that there needed to be an interface in the medical community that it was about muscle. It’s about solution based thinking. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And understanding that what you do in your twenties is gonna carry you throughout your life.

Mike Sarraille:
So this, this is where the second question comes in is you’re saying this, uh, cuz I think it was profess Professor, Dudley sergeant at Harvard in the early twenties advocated based off the whole person concept for physical education or training in the US school system. So I remember we had p you know, I gotta, was it physical training period or PE. What, but it seems like PE has become less strenuous in today’s Absolutely. Current education system to even if you went and looked at what’s being served for lunch in high schools and things like that, are we failing? As you said, we’re

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Totally failing,

Mike Sarraille:
Failing the next generation to, we

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Are absolutely failing the next generation. And what’s happened is we’re arguing amongst ourselves, plant-based vegan, there’s all this argument, right?

Mike Sarraille:
We’re gonna go there,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
But it’s, it’s all a smoke screen. I mean, so is it accurate? You know, should we be arguing? Are things really that difficult to understand from a nutrition perspective? I don’t think so. Like, it’s not, but what I do think is happening is that when we create enough distraction of the thing that isn’t really the thing, what is gonna end up happening is what we’re seeing. And that is a weak society, physically weak society, and an unhealthy society. One that is making it okay to be that way. And again, I wanna be very clear, I am not fat shaming. I, I, it is not someone’s choice. Like I understand that. But how we choose language around what we are promoting and choose language around what is okay versus, man, this could be a medical problem that we need to address. Like what are the things that we can do to take action? And, and that’s, that’s totally what’s missing.

Mike Sarraille:
So, and I’m gonna agree with you, people always, you know, one, the keyboard, uh, cowards are always gonna try to manipulate what you say and say, oh this, you know, Mike and Gabrielle are awful. They’re, they’re fating. I mean, we’re not, but when you see somebody who’s obese, that is empathy, you know, they’re not happy. Anyone who is obese that says they’re happy, this is where I’ll draw the line. You know, Hey, if you want to, you wanna look in the mirror and say that, that’s great, but don’t look at me and say that I know you are not happy. I’ve been obese. I, I was wounded in oh six, took shrapnel through the legs, couldn’t. So I was in a wheelchair for a little bit and then basically couldn’t work out for months. And I started eating really poorly and drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels.

Mike Sarraille:
Uh, based off what happened. Cuz the depression, I went from about 180 5 to two, uh, about two 20. And I felt so awful. And, and I, I held that for a long time, even in the steel teams, as much as we were doing stuff, my diet was so bad, I held onto that weight until finally something clicked. And, and I’m like, Hey, I gotta get back to, to health. But how much that played on my mental health as well Yeah. Is obesity does play on people’s mental health. And so it’s, it’s, it not only kills their, their physiological health, it kills their mental health. Yeah. And that’s, that’s why if you can help somebody who’s just having a difficult time with carrying some extra weight and you watch ’em, like shed that weight, it’s like they’re a new person. Yeah. So, let me, let me ask this cuz you bring up, there’s so much noise and a lot of it is marketing.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Oh

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. It’s like, oh, here’s the Great Fruit diet. The Miami, was it the Miami diet, the, there’s all these diets when I love how I follow a few influencers, uh, such as yourself and, and I mean, you’re a doctor now, you’re an influencer too, which is crazy. I I hate to say that.
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I’m like not

Mike Sarraille:
An influencer at hate, hate that title. Hate. It’s not Yeah. You’ve, you’ve created this, this huge following cuz of what you put out and the simplicity of it. Yeah. It’s that you go off the basics mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if people were just to follow the basics and stop saying, hey, well if you take this, uh, this new supplement, it’s gonna add to your health. So now you have, uh, you know, this whole vegan argument. People are actually, people are being very rude to cows. Cows are now being villainized as, uh, if we get rid of cows, we can’t No. Yeah. That’s, that’s insane. I will, that’s when the revolution will,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Uh, that’s, that’s it’s, but you know the, sorry to interrupt you. No,

Mike Sarraille:
No.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It’s all a smoke screen. It’s all So the vegan, the vegan, first of all, if one chooses to be vegan for their emotional and ethical connection to animals Yeah. But you,

Mike Sarraille:
How do you maintain protein on it? Vegan, go ahead.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
it’s can be done. It is gonna require supplementation. You know, it’s not necessarily gonna be a whole foods diet mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it’s also gonna require carbohydrates.

Mike Sarraille:
Well, I just read an article about a, uh, a woman in her thirties that was,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Most women will not continue that, but

Mike Sarraille:
Because it pushed her into early, uh,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Menopause. Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
And now she’s, now she’s eating meat again.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yeah. And it’s not to say you can’t be vegan and healthy. Yeah. You can totally be vegan and healthy. But the, the one thing I would say is ask yourself, why am I doing this? If you are doing this because it is, an ethical and, uh, emotional decision, fine. But if you are doing it because number one, you think it’s going to impact climate change, or number two, you think it is better for your health, I would completely disagree.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
So there’s that. and you know, the other thing is, while everyone over here is arguing, uh, cows are bad for the environment, and listen, does agriculture in and of itself contribute to greenhouse gas? Agricultural in and of itself is like 9% in the us Okay. 9%. So if you’re like me and you’re doing the numbers, well, where’s the other mass? Majority of it coming from that nobody’s talking about and it’s fossil fuels. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what you eat, no offense is not going to change. greenhouse, greenhouse gas. Do you know that if everyone went vegan, like let’s say there was, everyone went vegan, maybe 330 million people, right? Like went vegan. I believe that, and this is from Frank, uh, Mittler. He did, he did the math on this and he was, he’s a, a professor at uc Davis. It’d

Mike Sarraille:
Be more cash off to, to Wait,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Wait, no. You would actually change any kind of impact. Uh, I think, it’s, it was like 2%. That’s get rid of all maybe 2.9%. That’s getting rid of all livestock, 330 million people. He also said that if you, in order to counterbalance a Trans Atlantic flight, you’d have to go vegan for two years to make up for those admissions.

Mike Sarraille:
It’s, it’s amazing how I’m going to, I’ll say this, this shows the lack of critical thinking. I agree in our education system that people grasp onto these narratives. and, and yes, it’s the silent or the small minority as the, the loudest, uh, microphone. What was the movie that came out?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Game Changers.

Mike Sarraille:
Was it the MMA guy? And Yeah. I can’t believe they got Arnold Schwarzenegger of all people.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
But this is what’s so crazy to me, is if we care about fossil fuels mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? If we care about greenhouse gas, then we really have to number one, think about how are we going to number one, feed the 8 billion people. But number two, what about all the fossil fuels? So that means no private jets, that means all this other stuff.

Mike Sarraille:
Hypocrisy. This is where, yeah. Carrie is flying on his, his private jet to, to some, you know, climate change conference Right. Gives a speech and, and then gets back on that jet. And

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yeah. Climate change is a global problem. And in terms of the agriculture conversation of animal versus plant, we’re already eating 30 to 40% less red meat than we used to. We’re more overweight and we have more issues with global warming and climate change. So you tell me how that’s gonna work. So again, what I think it is, is, I think it’s a smoke screen.

Mike Sarraille:
Let me, let me ask you this question. If you had to boil it down to, you know, maybe three to, to to seven like mistakes that the American public is making today, what, what are those like core systemic problems when it comes to diet? Oh,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Perfect. I I would love to. This is a great, a great question.

Mike Sarraille:
Damn. I asked a good question that

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Wasn’t even Yes, you did. Number one, uh, prioritize high quality protein and it should be the first meal and the last meal of the day. Or the most important.

Mike Sarraille:
But, but in define,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I don’t care when you have it,

Mike Sarraille:
But define high quality protein.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
High quality protein is, is animal based proteins. Fish, fish be meat, bison, poultry, red meat, poultry, eggs. Whe I don’t care what it is. Okay. I also don’t care if it is organic or not Organic. Getting in those nutrients are critical. I think that we have a responsibility to ourselves and to the other people about health and wellness.

Mike Sarraille:
And, and that is one gram at a minim one gram per pound of body weight.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It’s a great way to shoot for, it’s a, it’s a great number to shoot for. Could it be higher or lower? Yes.

Mike Sarraille:
But, but for the average

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
One gram per pound ideal body

Mike Sarraille:
Weight. But for the average American, yeah. They’re consuming on a daily basis way under Yeah. What their protein

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Should, the average American, the average American male is consuming a hundred grams of protein. The average American female is consuming between 65 and maybe 90 grams of protein, maybe

Mike Sarraille:
In more carbs proportionally, way more gram

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
300 grams of carbs a day.

Mike Sarraille:
When, and, and I read so you have a great, just sort of, where’s about eight pages when you sign up on your website? Yeah. It’s,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
You, it’s a, it’s a free protocol. It’s just to help people. It is, yes. It’s a lion protocol. It’s, it’s very reasonable to follow. There’s no fad magic stuff. It’s about optimizing for dietary protein, understanding that we’re way over consuming carbohydrates. Understanding that protein should be the first thing that you eat. It should be prioritized. Your first meal of the day should have at least 30 grams of protein. Okay. For ev all your, for your listener out there, for your guy, 30 to 50 grams of protein at your first meal. I don’t care if your first meal is at 11, your last meal should have the same. You guys worried about, you know, having the pot belly and like the dad fix your nutrition.

Mike Sarraille:
Have you heard that women prefer the dad body?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
No, that’s a problem. Come on. You’ve heard that? Absolutely not.

Mike Sarraille:
I I always say that is the biggest bullshit that women

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Prefer. Yeah, no, that is some, no. Okay. Nobody prefers that. Guys zero chances of that.

Mike Sarraille:
Okay. So high quality protein, number

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
One, high quality protein do not be, and again, if you wanna have, uh, plant-based protein, fine, go ahead and do that. But prioritize protein. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, from my professional opinion, I think high quality protein, cuz it has cine, iron, zinc, bioavailable nutrients. I think that that’s critical. Okay. Again, this is just my professional opinion. That’s what you’re gonna do. The second thing is understanding that carbohydrates, you have to earn it. Right. If you are going to be a couch jockey, don eat all carbs. Right. So you better be training after your burrito. Mike.

Mike Sarraille:
I I’m going swimming after this, but, and when you say carbs,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It could be, so it’s

Mike Sarraille:
Vegetables. I mean, I mean technically

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I would like to see someone eat five, you know, more than there is a, uh, vegetable threshold. Right. I have never seen anyone eat, uh, more than five cups of broccoli ever. Yeah. But when I, what I’m talking about is that prioritize dietary protein. Again, if you are gonna be plant-based, which I don’t know if your listener is, then it would be a rice P blend, whatever. Okay. but then the carbohydrate intake is really important as well. And a great rule of thumb is you can match a one-to-one ratio. So if you’re gonna have 50 grams of protein for your first meal, go ahead and have 50 grams of carbs, but not more than that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And same with the last meal. That would be very easy, very simple. And it’s gonna be difficult to overeat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then if you want more carbohydrates, which you know, unless you’re training hard you don’t need, then time it around your workout. But earn your carbs. I love that. And then the other thing that if we care about the environment and climate change, the one takeaway I would say is don’t waste your food. Americans waste 40% of their calories. And why is that a big deal? It’s because that the food, you know, all has a carbon f print, all that stuff. But we’re wasting the majority of our food.

Mike Sarraille:
You mean throwing

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It out it out? Throwing it out, letting it spoil

Mike Sarraille:
Basically put it,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Letting it spoil. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re wasting 40% of our food. You know, and then the other thing is, I hate to say this, but get, get good sleep. That’s very helpful for body composition standpoint. And by the way, before I say sleep, you should be training, you should be doing resistance exercise. And you should, it,

Mike Sarraille:
You wrote, you wrote very good article about sleep in men’s journal, didn’t

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
You? I wrote an article on, actually, I think I wrote an article on self care. That’s maybe, or did I write an ar? I’m not sure. I

Mike Sarraille:
Think you did sleep.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I don’t think so. No. Okay. I think I did self care. Maybe that, uh, or rethinking, uh, men’s health, I’m not sure. Okay.

Mike Sarraille:
We’ll,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
We’ll have to, we’ll link

Mike Sarraille:
It. So, high quality protein, uh, smart carbs, one to one ratio

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Training,

Mike Sarraille:
Train resistance training, strength training training, which they’ve shown for especially elderly. Still doing resistance training is

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
But you have to do it midlife, don’t wait. Right. Like everybody,

Mike Sarraille:
Yes. They’ve shown data shown. Even when in, I always saw my parents who go to the gym or you gonna to the gym. They’re in their seventies, they’re going to the gym, they’re lifting, I mean small weights, but at least they’re, they’re getting resistance turning

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
In. That’s, you have to do that. And it, and it’s interesting because I actually get a lot of pushback from, uh, believe it or not, the Pilates or yoga community, because I say that that shouldn’t be your primary driver of strength.

Mike Sarraille:
It’s great for flexibility. I do yoga, but I still hit the,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
It’s wonderful. I’m not saying that it, you know, it’s not. But when we are thinking about aging and understanding that muscle is an endocrine organ, muscle is the organ of longevity. It relates to survivability. It’s an organ like the thyroid, believe it or not. It secretes these myokines, it does all these things. Muscle strength is really important. And same with muscle mass. And people will say, oh, well how much muscle do you need? I don’t think that we know that answer. But what we do know is that quality muscle, muscle that is functioning well and muscle that is healthy. Right. Lean and healthy is going to improve your survivability. How you get muscle. Well, yes. I suppose you could do yoga and Pilates. Is that the most optimal way to prioritize strength and hypertrophy? I would say it is not in, is not the optimal way to do that.

Mike Sarraille:
The, the yoga community is very interesting. So I go and, and I do, that was the Bikram yoga. I usually go once or twice a week. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I sweat my ass

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Off. Well that’s cuz it’s like 180 degrees or something. Well, no,

Mike Sarraille:
I mean, the older ladies next to me are not, I’ve got like this pool of sweat.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I always, so basically nobody wants to be next to, you know,

Mike Sarraille:
That guy, the older lady’s giving this just like snicker and I’m like, stop Karen <laugh>. Like, let me like I, my, and plus my endocrine system’s off. Like, I like just Karen back the hell off. Like yoga people are like, oh, we’re very accepting. It’s like, yeah, but I get these Snickers. and, and it’s great for flexibility and I wish I started yoga earlier, but, no one we’re, we’re gonna turn this into an article because it’s, it’s the basics now. There’s all these people that timing and I love, forget it. Jordan Syop. Yeah. He’s like, Hey, this is all bullshit. You know? Do you follow Jordan s

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I’m not sure. Okay.

Mike Sarraille:
No, he’s, he’s, he was Gary v’s. Trainer. He’s got a massive following, but the guy’s freaking hilarious. He’s hilarious. He also does a comedy. We’re gonna get him on the show, but he’s like intermittent fasting. He’s like, like, just get rid of all that. Totally.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
They’re over

Mike Sarraille:
Basics. I agree. Of macros.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I completely agree with him. And that’s what I mean is that we are distracting her. It’s like all a smoke screen. It’s two, it’s, it’s one and two things. Number one, it’s an excuse. So if we are confused, we have an excuse not to execute. Right. Or number two, there’s so many people wanting the money or wanting funds that, you know, it’s all about selling people something and keeping them prisoner. That’s what I believe those two things are. Number one, you’re using it as a distraction and that you couldn’t possibly execute cuz you don’t know what to do. Right. Which to me is bs. I mean, I, I can see that and appreciate it. Or number two is that people are really genuinely confused because everybody is, you know, we are not a society that actually is facilitating health and wellness as the priority because there’s probably no money in that. No medications, uh, no processed foods, no quick fix diet books

Mike Sarraille:
Right there. The quick fix that everyone is looking for. The quick fix. If you asked somebody on the street, we took a hundred people and said, Hey Emma, left hand is a red pill. You’ll get instant abs your muscle mask in ratio to your, your, your, your, uh, body fat will, will right. Change. Or in the other hand, here’s a six month program to lose 30 pounds also increasing your muscle mass. What, what are people gonna choose? Americans? Right. The quick pill, but they’ll lose it as quickly as they gained it. Right. Because they have not established the habitual habit. The foundation’s habit. Yeah. The habits, the foundation to, to live that life

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
And becoming the person that you want to be. It health and wellness cultivates people, you know, it, it, it’s interesting, right? I’m a physician and uh, uh, you know, medicine is the modality that allows me to get to see into people’s lives. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is the greatest honor and privilege. What is so interesting is looking at those individuals that really are incredible and achieve phenomenal things and do phenomenal good work in the world. And just seeing who they are and their discipline. And when you remove the physical obstacles, what is possible for people. And that’s, it’s tremendous. So this idea that there’s a quick fix, none of the people that I take care of would ever want that because they will tell you that their struggles have made them who they are.

Mike Sarraille:
So, you know, you, you did a lot of time in hospitals and different programs. What have you seen in terms of people that followed, followed a very good diet, well undergo, let’s say in oncology where they were going through, through treatments? Like did diet play in or is there data that shows diet plate into their recovery?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Well, we know, well what we do know is that those with healthier muscle mass always survive. They’re, they not survive. Lemme rephrase that. Always have the potential to increase their survivability

Mike Sarraille:
Higher, higher survivability,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Higher survivability. We see that when someone falls, we see that in car accidents, cancers, cancer patients. So that, that kills people. Muscle wasting, which is highly catabolic. Cancer kills people. so it’s not the cancer in and of itself that kills them. It’s the fact that they’re so hyper metabolic that their muscle is being destroyed. You know, what’s so fascinating to me is that all these issues, you know, as, as we think about diabetes, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s, we think that there are diseases of adiposity. Right. People being overweight, that that’s where it starts. But the reality is it started decades earlier, muscle in their muscle. Yeah. Before we even addressed it, there’s evidence to support that insulin resistance begins in skeletal muscle in 18 year old sedentary people. And it takes a decade before it even shows up in their blood. So they could come to me and like it shows up in their blood. What I’m concerned about is what are we doing to our youth when we’re sending the message that just beyond TikTok or beyond Instagram, or beyond your device, don’t move I, and you know, that’s okay. You know, you, you should get a participation trophy or something like this. Right. So there’s all these things that we are subtly telling our youth that is going to create

Mike Sarraille:
Stunt them. Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
And that, you know, I, I think that that’s something really to be concerned about. Not to get off on a tangent because I’m sure that the, your listener at home is like, okay, well what do I have to do? And, and I think this is about changing perspective. That as a society we need to become stronger. And as a society we are obsessed with all these, uh, these other things that are symptomology. Right. Obesity is symptomology. A weak mental structure is symptom symptomology of much deeper issues. The vegan versus animal, like it’s all, it’s all distracting from the fact that we are not going back to the core of what has the potential to make a human great, which is hard work, resiliency, grit, these fundamental factors that we all

Mike Sarraille:
Possess. You just tied medicine to leadership or self leadership. You, you say we’re stuck in our youth. you know, one, you know, leadership is, is my passion and that’s why I own a consulting firm. But you know, I people will be what people can see. You remember that old, uh, public service announcement, uh, video in, uh, commercial in the eighties for Don’t do drugs. The father comes over

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Cigar box. Wait, no, I just remember the is your

Mike Sarraille:
Brain, oh, is your brain on drugs? Well, there’s, there was one where a father comes into his son’s room. The son was on the bed, he’s got a cigar box in inside the ci cigar boxes at marijuana. He says, where’d you learn to do this? And he dodges the question, father, ask him, where’d you learn to do this? And he says, I’d learned if watching you dad learned it from watching you. Yeah. So you talk about stunning is, and I’m sure you may have looked at data as you know, probably kids that have obese parents learn those habits from watching their parents. Oh yeah. And I’d be interested to see of, you know, the data on households where the parents are healthy, that have good foundations that are enforcing this product, you know, sort of principles and, and, and traits. If the kids turn out to be of similar,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Uh, they do. And childhood obesity is a major

Mike Sarraille:
Problems. And it’s, and is, but statistically, if a child is obese, are the

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Parents usually there is more likely, there is more likely a chance, that if if families are obese, their children are obese.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. They’re not shocking. Not shocking. It’s you, your kids are watching people will be what people can see. Your kids are watching, they’re watching what you do if you’re, if you’re popping a, a coke every, every meal, if that’s what you’re drinking more than water. Yeah. I mean we didn’t even talk about water consumption, but this is not the last time we’re gonna have you on here. Great. Uh, in one, we’re starting a, uh, uh, a Friday Live Q and a with, uh, Sean Apperson and Tyson Manias, uh, to MMA guys here in Austin that are freaking hilarious. And we’ll have you on the live sessions broadcasted through men’s journals channels. Uh, the one thing we did not bring up, uh, bring up is, uh, one your, your pedigree, which I say is, is highly impressive. And what you’ve built in the community and you’re following, I mean, you’ve got a podcast and the name of the podcast is

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
The Dr. Gabrielle Line Show <laugh>

Mike Sarraille:
In, in 14 episodes in, and your, I mean, your numbers are insane. I’ve never seen somebody grow such a following as quickly as you have. And I think it’s a testament to one, not only the data based, uh, you know, uh, science that you’re putting out behind this mu muscle, uh, centric, uh, medicine. It’s, it’s your personality as well. But amazing what you’ve done. But you have made some very poor choices in your life. <laugh>, uh, namely

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I was like, I

Mike Sarraille:
You married a Navy seal. I mean, so you’re highly educated, but you make a poor decision. You marry a Navy

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Seal. I listen, I actually, the, what people don’t know is when I, when he showed interest, I said, don’t ever call me again. I’m absolutely not dating you. Forget it. He’s like, there’s a chance. I said, there’s,

Mike Sarraille:
So he did the

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Demo

Mike Sarraille:
Number so you’re telling me there’s a chance.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yes. And I said, there is a zero chance I refuse to pick up his phone calls for almost three months.

Mike Sarraille:
Wait, okay. So hold on. How did you meet Shane?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
I met Shane through, uh, mark Divine, who’s a command, you know, mark Divine, former Commander Seal. And he said to me, Hey, I have this seal. He wants to go into medicine. Can you talk to him? And I was like, okay. So we were friends for quite some time, virtually

Mike Sarraille:
Talking on the phone.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yep. And it helped, uh, you know, he was, he’s really smart. Don’t tell him that. But he’s actually very smart. He was taking night classes while he was in Afghanistan, taught himself

Mike Sarraille:
God

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Calculus and physics. so I, it was very professional and I was very helpful to him and you know, and I was coming out of a relationship, so a relationship had broken up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he, as soon as he knew that he expressed interest,

Mike Sarraille:
He saw Wounded Dove and he

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Slipped down. Totally. And I’m like, I’m just, don’t even call me completely not interested. And he would,

Mike Sarraille:
But you, you, you’d seen a picture of him at this point. Shane’s a handsome dude.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
She’s a handsome dude. But so I mean, at this time, so I started taking care of military operators in 2016 mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I mean, a lot of them are amazing. All of them are amazing. And some, you know, as, as a physician you really get to know people cuz they trust you. They trust you with if something goes wrong, you know, and they’re, I’ll be there. Right. So some one came in and, and he’s like, Hey, what do you think about this girl? How about her? She’s in Texas, what about this one? Oh no. That, that right. The typical, so there’s, you know, I’m not

Mike Sarraille:
The unprofessional side.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Right, right. And you know, they’d be like, doc G what do you think about her? I’m like, oh my God, I would never date one of you guys. But of course then there’s the other ones that are just incredible teammates. Not that I’m, but the good news about the seals is I know that I’m not offending any seal right now.

Mike Sarraille:

Maybe. No,
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
There’s definitely, they may be sensitive, but they’ll get over it.

Mike Sarraille:
You, you’d be surprised. There are some sensitive ones that they Oh yeah, no, there, there are. But, and Shane is, he’s about to finish

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Medical school. He’s about to fi he was in Team 10 and he is finishing med school now. So he’s a medic, medic in the teams. He’s finishing med school, he’s top of his class. He’s going into urology. He’s very interested. So he’s a surgeon by nature. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they told him in his training that he really didn’t have the great bedside manner. you know, no, no surprise there. Let

Mike Sarraille:
Me guess A dry sense of humor, jokes

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
That just wouldn’t go over with. So are you having a heart attack? Yeah. Or I’m like, honey, that’s a, oh just leave that to me. And, yeah. Top of his class and he is going into urology and one of the things is that he’s very interested in his reconstructive urology. So from blast trauma and those kinds of things,

Mike Sarraille:
Man, I’d love to see special operations guys Yep. Who were so selfless in their service, get out and continue to do great things, man. They did the statistic had then of spec ops guys that go on to do, uh, amazing things. Start companies become doctors, lawyers. I mean you look at Dr. Johnny Kim.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Yes. So Johnny Kim achiever. Yeah. Man, I don’t know achiever. His kids are never <laugh>, never going to, uh, live up to

Mike Sarraille:
It’s funny you say that. So I had him on, uh, we did a special season by

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
The way. I asked Johnny Kim to come on my podcast and he said, no, he is flying under the radar now. I’m gonna have to give him a hard time by it.

Mike Sarraille:
Wait, when when did that happen?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
When we were in Dallas.

Mike Sarraille:
Okay. I’ll, I can talk to him. Maybe something changed. But he did come on my podcast and he said, you know, cause he grew up and yes, his dad was, was abusive an alcoholic. He, he said on the podcast it was, I mean you talk about one of the best dudes you’ll ever meet. And I went through Buds with him and then I was a Seal team three with him. Is he, he’s told, who told his kids, all I ask is that you find what you’re passionate about. He said, if it’s a pianist, a doctor, a lawyer, a small business owner, and just poured into it. But he’s been very specific cuz his dad’s definitions of success was wild different than his Right. And he said, I will not put that on my kids. So knowing that guy’s heart, he will, he will, he will grow amazing, uh, kids in good Americans and, and so will you and Shane.

Mike Sarraille:
But, uh, always gotta give you crap when, when of I like it is, and I’m glad you got him sort of on the tail end of his career. What, you know, the unsung hero are military wives and you, you got a taste of that. my wife likes to say she’s a co wife and she says a jokingly, she got me at retirement. I will never understand what it’s like to watch your husband or or loved one or wife go to war and stay back, wondering if you’re gonna get that call. That’s, that’s insane. And, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, but yeah. So that takes a great deal of, uh, emotional, uh, strength. Where can people, well, where can people find you and, and follow this. And, and I love to say the simplicity of what you put out is that’s the beauty of it. It’s so simple. It’s just then putting those practices into your life. Yeah. where can they find you? Where can they follow

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
You Yep. So they can find me on my podcast, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, and my website, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon.com. I’m also very active on Instagram, Twitter. I have a newsletter, which is great and very well vetted. I put in a really interesting article and some kind of free resource. I spend a lot of time trying to help educate also my YouTube. I don’t know if I mentioned that. And, if people are interested in being a patient, they can apply.

Mike Sarraille:
And you may, you know, you, you just finished up

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
A Oh yeah. And I have a book coming out with Simon and Schuster, but that is, that takes like a year.

Mike Sarraille:
I know you mentioned things like grit and discipline and resilience. What are those for Gabriel Line? What are, what are those? One to three tenets, those non-negotiables that you live your life by? Commitment.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Commitment, commitment to whatever it is that that vision is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. also commitment to your family. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and this might sound cheesy, but commitment to yourself. You have to be able to learn to be your own best friend and put yourself to a standard that you feel confident and comfortable with, that you bring out to the world. Right? Because there’s a lot of external noise. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But being committed and being your own best friend and really holding yourself to the highest standard

Mike Sarraille:
Possible. Warriors. I always say warriors hold themselves to, to high standards. And when I say warrior again, they know it’s the everyday warrior. It, it has nothing to do with being a war fighter, it’s that mindset. So commitment. What else?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
commitment, integrity, resiliency. You are going to get knocked down a million times and that, that, that’s okay. And then, I would say, this is not a word, but it’s, it’s knowing your north star, knowing Yeah. What is it that you are meant to do and, and what does that look like? And following that path, committing to that path and following that path.

Mike Sarraille:
Love that. Yeah, love that. When all is said and done, and hopefully that’s 40, 50 years from now, or if you’re following what you preach, maybe maybe 50, 60. when all is said and done, you’re looking back in your life, how is Dr. Gabrielle line gonna know she lived a life of purpose and impact? What are those things that you hope

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Dear? My children and my husband, knowing that they’ve had an incredible life and that, you know, that the legacy that lives on is not only within them, you know, of who they become as humans and how they contribute to the world. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and hopefully my husband dies first, but, you know, <laugh>, uh, what

Mike Sarraille:
He’s been exposed to, there’s probably high probability.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:

Yeah. But, you know, everyone is considered crazy at first until people adopt their view. Right. So everyone can consider me crazy until all of a sudden in 40 years people go, you know, remember that that woman, Dr. Lyon, when she was talking about that, maybe she wasn’t as crazy Oh yeah. As everybody was telling her that she was, or that this perspective. So I think understanding that now we, we no longer talk about obesity, and that’s kind of the side piece. Just like muscle is the, the side piece. Yeah. Yep. That the legacy I’m gonna leave is that it is muscle’s a pinnacle. Yep. All that other stuff is the side piece.

Mike Sarraille:
You, you mentioned something, it’s funny how people are like, ah, well Gabriel, you’re gonna fail. You don’t want to do that. And then they’re the same people being like, we always believed in you, <laugh>. Yeah. We always knew you were gonna do something special. it’s, this is what I’m looking over at Will, I think like our, our 30th podcast. Every single person that we’ve asked at some point in those questions all bring up legacy. And I call it the legacy of leadership. It’s what you leave behind. But I’m starting to see that all high performers are worried about their legacy. Now, some people hear that, they’d probably be like, oh, well that’s just selfish. That’s, that’s self-driven. Who fucking cares? It’s, it, it would, there, what you care about is your impact on others. You just said your children or people that you help. Oh yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
You put muscle first. Oh yeah. And so if anyone wants to comment and be negative about somebody’s legacy, and that’s selfish, well, you can kiss my rebel asses. I say <laugh>. But Hey, Gabrielle, this thank you for, for joining us. again, for, for the audience, this is not the last time you’re gonna hear from Gabrielle. And, uh, we just had a discussion with the triple seven, which is coming in. She’s gonna be an advisor alongside, uh, Dr. Kirk Parsley, Kristin, Holmes. And, uh, I believe, uh, Dr. Huberman based off Kristen’s input is gonna assist with that as well. And we got Dr. Brian Henry as well. So interested from the human performance perspective, how that’s gonna impact the guys who are all old, retired, especially with lack of sleep, how that’s gonna work. So appreciate coming on board for that. And again, to our listeners, uh, thank you for joining us. Go follow Gabrielle, uh, if anywhere, starting on Instagram, and then you’ll, you’ll find out everywhere

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
Else. Yep. I’ll open to my website and if they, oh, and then, and then two other, one other thing is that if they’re, if they are an operator mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they’re listening and they are a special operator, special, but, uh, I’m so special, I guess, and if they need help to please reach out to me. Yeah. Please reach out to the practice. If we can’t service you, which I’m sure that we can, we can help connect them to where they need to be.

Mike Sarraille:
And, and you didn’t bring that up and I know we’re closing out, but she dedicates her time free of charge to the special operators to get them back to health because for the public that you don’t know it, the end, I mean, the guys endocrine systems basically shut down from all the cortisol. Testosterone.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
You don’t, they don’t know the dark side, the dark side of the teams. Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
so when you get out of special operations, whether it’s six years or 30 years, there’s a lot of, uh, negative impacts on the body. It’s just a hard job. And she has dedicated her life to getting those guys back to health or some semblance of health based off what happens to ’em. So thank you for that as well. That’s selfless. Right. Guys, thanks for joining us. This is The Men Journal Everyday Warrior podcast. I’m your host, Mike Sarraille, and we’ll see you next time.

Episode 42

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 42: Dr. Jason Wersland
In episode 42 of the Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior Podcast With Mike Sarraille, we spoke to Dr. Jason Wersland, founder of Therabody.
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Episode 43

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 43: Lamar Stevens
In episode 43 of the Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior Podcast With Mike Sarraille, we spoke to Cleveland Cavaliers forward Lamar Stevens.
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Episode 44

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 44: Taye Diggs
In episode 44 of the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast, we spoke to actor Taye Diggs about his show, 'All American.'
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Episode 45

Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 45: D.J. Vanas
In episode 45, we spoke to D.J. Vanas, an enrolled member of the Ottawa Tribe and a former U.S. Air Force officer.
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Episode 46

New
Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 46: Rich Diviney
In episode 46, of the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast, we spoke to Rich Diviney, a retired Navy SEAL.
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